Noticed criticism of masking tape arbours for reelseats in the last few months. Just stripped a rod that I built about 20 years ago with masking tape arbours. The tape was as good as the day it went on, also stripped another one that was almost 30 years old last year and the tape was also very good. I use 1/2 inch tape about 3/8 inch from each end and one in the centre and ensure that the tape is covered with epoxy and the spaces between the tape are completely filled so there is solid epoxy between the blank and the reelseat so as to ensure any tip vibrations are transmitted to the reelseat. The extra weight in that area of the rod does not concern me. Cork and other arbours must dampen any vibrations in the rod and I feel there is less transmission when using them. I've built a lot of rods from 2lb flick sticks to 50lb game rods and I've never had a reelseat come loose. If it's not broke, don't fiddle with it. My surface preparation is now a lot better than when this one was built. The rod just stripped is one of my favorites and has had a lot of saltwater use. It's about to get a rebuild using Titanium frame single foot guides with Sic rings and a spiral wrap and guess what sort of arbours are going under the reelseat!!!!!!!!!! - masking tape. All comments appreciated.
EFSNEM Col

Ditto your experience. I use tape on many rods. Bushings on light weight builds.
John

I never used anything but bushings.
Lighter for my fly rods, Tape has a "shiny" surface that I worried about epoxy adhesion. For thick applications tape has tendency to get an egg-shape causing reel seat to be off center - a recipe for disaster since I turn my grips on the blank. I happen to swear by the West System of epoxy and it is too thin to use to fill voils between tape rings. I guess I could add West System thickeners or use Rod Bond.
I know some smaller manufactures use tape but I just can't get myself to use it.
Herb

Several years ago there was a fellow who posted here who happened to be in the masking tape manufacturing business. He listed many reasons why tape was not a good idea for making bushings. You can do a search for "masking tape" and see if you can find those posts.

Having said that, most commercially made rods utilize bushings made from masking tape. Most don't fail. But when a bushing does fail, it is generally one that was made from tape.

The urethane foam arbors are lighter, more rigid and quicker to assemble and mount than tape bushings. Something to think about.

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The only reelseats I have had to repair were either with tape bushings or cardboard bushings. I know if things are sealed well with the epoxy, they should be just fine. bit if water does get inside, they will not last.

Col;
I would contend that in your case; the tape is not the arbor’s, but merely dam’s holding back the epoxy and keeping it place until it cures hard enough to become one solid arbor.

Used this way I don’t see how the tape could fail and even if it did. It has already served its purpose in retaining the epoxy until it cured.
That kind of weight may not make deference in heavier or salt water applications.

But it is not what I would recommend on lighter rods were a builder is attempting to keep weight down to improve performance.
Adding weight such as a solid epoxy arbor at the reel seat may not affect rod balance much. But even heavier fresh water rods that are held, cast, flipped, or pitched repeatedly all day.
Just a once or two of unnecessary weight increases the fatigue issues.

Weight is the enemy of sensitivity. So pouring epoxy inbetween tape spacers has to add a lot of weight and therefore reduce sensitivity. To each his own but no tape will ever be used on one of my custom rods. I believe there are better methods that are easier, quicker, and longer lasting than tape so that's what I use.

Col,
There are a million different things that can be used for rod building reel seat arbors.
Use the one or multiple product/s of this selection of a million that makes best sense to you from the perspective of a custom rod builder.

If arbors make sense, use them. If cardboard makes sense, use it. If fiberglass tape makes sense, use it. If masking tape makes sense, use it.
If foam arbors make sense, use them. If cork rings make sense, use them.

etc. etc. etc.

Many many many different products that can be used for the same purpose. Some are lighter, some are heavier, some are more durable, some are perhaps better in the vision of one rod builder, but that same product may be disliked by another rod builder.

The bottom line, this is the CUSTOM rod building forum. Custom means doing things in a way that satisfies both the rod builder, but even more importantly, the final user of the product.


Good luck

Roger

Col,
Rob is correct about weight reducing sensitivity and you are correct about vibrations traveling up the rod being reduced in amplitude by the tape. When vibrations traveling up the blank run into a different material it is called a discontinuity and the amplitude of the vibrations will be reduced by an amount that is equal to the difference in the mechanical impedance of the two materials. The mechanical impedance is determined by the mass density (weight per unit of length) and the the elasticity ( roughly the stretch). Masking tape used as an arbor will have high weight per unit of length which will lower the amplitude of the vibrations and it will have more stretch then other arbor materials which will again reduce the amplitude of the vibrations. However, if the masking tape is completely encased in epoxy the vibrations will travel through both the masking tape and the epoxy in parallel. which will result in less attenuation of the vibrations. But the mechanical impedance of epoxy is about as bad as the masking tape.
I would suggest that in any rod that you want to have high sensitivity that you not use masking tape. The foam arbors will have much better mechanical impedance or will reduce the amplitude of the vibrations less than the masking tape.
Reel seats themselves have a different mechanical impedance than the blank so will also reduce the amplitude of vibrations. You might want to consider avoiding the problem on a rod that you want to have high sensitivity by using a blank through reel seat. This gets your finger directly on the blank.
By the way, calling reel seats "graphite reel seats" is baloney. They are injection moulded out of mainly plastic which also has a poor mechanical impedance.

Since i primarily build med-heavy duty Saltwater rods, i have found that sensitivity really doesn't have that big of an effect for most people. therefore, i have found that using Drywall tape, with epoxy brushed across as you wrap works very well and is actually a whole lot stronger than any masking tape ever could consider. other wise though, on any rod where sensitivity matters i try use arbors if at all possible.

Depending on how much space there is between the OD of the blank and the ID of the seat. If I have to go more then 8 - 10 turns of 3 - 1/4" tape arbors I will go a full arbor.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 09:17AM by bill boettcher.

I dismantled an 8' Fenwick HMG flipping stick that had masking tape arbors. It was more like goo.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Chuck,
If water is allowed to get in under the reel seat over time the masking tape will turn to goo. The key is to get a good seal with the epoxy particularly on the ends so that no water can get under the reel seat to the masking tape. I think that for small gaps between the reel seat and the blank dry wall tape is probably a better choice but for larger gaps it seems to me that the dry wall tape requires a lot of epoxy and is messy so I feel that the foam arbors are a better choice.

Never had a reel seat tape bushing come loose,break or anything else. I would say poor prep caused them to fail.

I also do repairs for a local shop and almost all of the reels seat repairs I have done, were masking tape arbors. I will say that most of those were when the builder/manufacturer tried to make up too much difference between the seat and the blank. As already stated more than a few wraps around the blank you are asking for possible problems down the road. I prefer the drywall tape for doing those type of arbors due to the fact that you can pack the epoxy down throught the holes and get a blank to seat bond. Whenever I can I prefer the foam arbors. The cost is minimal, easy to ream and I feel you get a better bond. I also use RodBond which fills gaps better than standard epoxies like Devcon.

Thanks gentlemen for all your comments. I'll get some full length foam arbors and give them a try and see if I can notice any difference in vibration transmission compared to solid epoxy arbors, thanks Steve never really thought of them like that. As usual I'll have to import them from the States as I don't know of anyone that stocks them in Australia. I hope you guys in the States realise how lucky you are having such a huge variety of rodbuilding materials so readily available. We used to have several blank manufacturers but now there is only Pacific Composites and I wouldn't be surprised if they get them made in Asia.
I'll have to disagree with a couple of comments about the size of masking tape arbors. The one I just stripped had about 20 turns around the blank and as I said it was just like the day it went on. If your going to use masking tape you've got to make sure the tape is completely covered with epoxy so there is no chance of water getting to it.
I'm just an old fart that basically taught himself how to buid rods as there was nothing like this forum or the amount of material available today around when I started. That's both good and bad as when you've got to work it out for yourself you learn a lot more and what you learn sticks. It's bad because you can get set in your ways and be a bit reluctant to try new stuff.
ESFNEM Col

Check often when reaming them out. They ream very fast and easy.

Bill - willierods.com

Col, basically it is polyurethane tube. Most any industrial supply house will have it. You might even be able to get it at a gardening place. Certainly no need to import from the states.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Thanks again
ESFNEM Col

The urethane foam arbors are porous and therefore have a much better stiffness to weight ratio than epoxy and tape. This is the way to go on light rods for sensitivity and light weight. I don't think there is anything better.

However, tape and paper tubes are fine where weight and sensitivity are not an issue. I've personally seen paper tubes used underground for sewer pipes that lasted 50 years (but plastic [urethane] would probably last 1,000 years).