Personally I find the sensitivity provided by feeling to be vital in fishing and paramount in choices of blanks

You can certainly start with a sensitive blank and depending on your construction end up with a dead feeling rod.
But you can never start with a dead feeling blank and end up with a sensitive (feeling) rod!

I also watch the line while fishing and have set the hook many times on fish that were not “felt” but by far the majority of the fish I catch were caught because I set the hook on what was felt opposed to what was seen.

Bob;
I think we should take Mr. Kirkman up on his challenge. There is a pool at the hotel across from the ICRBE that we can use while attending in February. I will bring the rods, bring your swimming shorts, and I will let you know if I can feel you smacking the worm.

You may consider it a myth, but I consider it to be an empirical fact that a sensitive rod will catch more fish then a lesser or none sensitive rod.

I'm siding with Tom on this and here's why:
Growing up my dad owned a bait and tackle store. the counter were the cash register was, was actaully a 600 gal fish tank with a glass front. for years we had live 6-8 lbs largemouth as a display for customer. We spent hours observing and running test with different lures, worms,baits and techniques ( no hooks obviously). I can't tell you how many times someone would be watching through the front glass while one person was lowering a worm or bait into the tank attached to a peice of mono ( in the hand or attached to a rod and reel, Braid wasn't yet used), the person holding the line could not see into the tank, the bass would strick and the person holding the line would never feel it. I've been on both ends of this and it's amazing how soft the strikes can be. I can tell you the bigger the bass the softer the strikes ( they don't get big being stupid). I used to hand feed these bass shiners and they would take them out of my hand with ever feeling it. Ask anyone from the Norfolk Mass area, it was Carroll's bait and Tackle.

We never could keep trout alive for what ever reason so I can't compare.

Just my 2 cents

Bob,

Strike indicators are used so the fisherman can see line movement.

..................

IMO, "sensitive rods" are used mainly for "feeling" the bottom, certain structure and certain vibrations - ie. spinnerbait blades, cranks. not necessarily bites. if you've ever sight fished for bass, you'll notice that as you watch a bass pick up your lure, you cant even feel it UNTIL the bass starts to move or move away. the way you know that the bass has got your lure in its mouth is by watching your line move or by watching the bass itself.

LEGENDARY CREATIONS CUSTOM RODS
Maplewood, MN

I'm very surprised at the number of posts. I appreciate all the input. This is exactly what I wanted to see. I don't doubt that trout strike very gently. But when I'm out on the lake and the bite gets tough I have all these questions running through my head. Since I'm an engineer I want to be able to quantify how to build the lightest, most durable, and finally most sensitive rod I can, whatever that means. I can measure weight and I can measure durability. But sensitivity is tough for me to get my arms around.

About all you can do it build the lightest practical rod possible for what you're doing and then know that you've done all you can do equipment-wise. Beyond that it's up to your skill as an angler.

..............

I think its quite rediculous to think that a rod will pick up vibration from a slack line. It wont. A good test would be to take that same "pool" test, but rather than simply swatting at the worm, take the slack out of the line with one hand, and then with the other hand flick the worm. I think with a taught line there will be a big difference between the sensitivities of varius rods. But I think the key here is to have a "tight" line.

Its no revalation that the key to fishing worms,and jigs for bass is to keep a tight line as often as possible between you and the bait. No?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 01:11PM by Larry Damore.

There was no slack in the line when we slapped the worm. The worm was being retrieved on a tight line when it was whacked. You won't feel it.

There would have been no point in doing this unless the line was tight.

................

Just a guess, but by not securing, or keeping tension on the the line while you bump or flick it, the slack after the hit allows any vibration to disapate. Like the the toy phone where a string is strung between two cans. Talk through a slack line and you'll hear nothing, but put tension on the string and it works like a charm. However, unlike cans, I believe when it comes to rod blanks the are better and worse blanks for transmitting, or feeling the energy transfer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 01:26PM by Larry Damore.

Again, the line was tight. The worm was under retrieve.

I can't imagine that anyone would expect to feel anything through a slack line.

............

Let me clarify. The line was tight on the retieve, but at the moment of impact it was not. Therefore the slack right after the hit would disipate the vibration (ie a bass imediately spitting the worm without pulling against the line). Now on the other hand if you were to hold the worm and keep tension on the line while flicking the worm (ie a bass sipping a worm, and then mouthing it without letting go), , I believe there WOULD be a transfer of energy to the rod (some rods much better than others). I think a big part of it has to do with modulus, and rigidity. Graphite obviously transfers energy better than many other materials.

No, it was tight at impact. There would be no point in doing it any other way.

I already stated that if you stopped the worm you could feel that. But you will not feel the worm being slapped from the side, up, down, etc. You'll only feel something if you actually stop the worm.

............

I have a client who often fishes with the guy who is after 16+ pound steelheads from the top of a 60 foot cliff over a raging river, but my client wants an extremely sensitive ice-fishing rod to fish for perch through the ice with a mousie grub on a dot lure under a porcupine quill bobber. What blank would you recommend?

Larry;
"I think its quite rediculous to think that a rod will pick up vibration from a slack line."

Why do you think that's ridiculous?
What do you base that assumption on?

Larry, my experience contradicts your statement. I don't do much lake fishing, I'm a river guy, but I was fishing Raystown Lake this summer with a buddy of mine. I was throwing an unweighted 3" senko with my 3C68MXF built as a spinning rod. My rod was built with TYSG's in 25, 16, 8 with TLSG 3.5's for runners. I have a DNPSD size 20 and a fighting butt- nothing else. I had an Abu Garcia Cardinal reel spooled with 15lb Spiderwire braid. I made a cast into a tree top and let the senko sink. I had quite a large belly of slack in the line as well as some laying on the surface of the water, and as I was looking at my buddy I felt small pecks, small vibrations. I looked back at my senko to see 3 or 4 little bluegills pecking at it. It was very clear to me that I was indeed feeling vibrations with a slack line. Now, the line was laying in a straight line, there were no loops or bends in it, but it was indeed slack. What really sold me is that fact that I wasn't looking at my worm when I felt it, so I didn't see it and think I felt it.

jeremy

I hope a few of us can make use of the Best Western swimming pool at this year's Expo. There's going to be a lot of surprised people if we do. You can't feel what you think you can.

Of course, the folks who run the Best Western will wonder why guys are entering their pool room with fishing rods. It'd be funny if somebody brought in a fish and left the room saying they'd just caught it out of the pool.

................

Beware of the sensitivity of those light, fast, high modulus graphite rods.
It is most embarassing to set the hook on an unseen bump to watch a 2" shiner go flying past wishing he hadn't wanted that fly so badly.
If you don't want to feel the bump go back to the old heavy fiberglass rods stacked in the closet. Sure did cut down on the leaf hooksets and dinks.
I just want the big boys to stop posting sentry's to intercept the pattern.
Sensitivity is no myth. Top line blanks are worth every penny and we'll never know how many we used to miss, thinking the fish just weren't biting today.

Eugene Moore

Steve Gardner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Larry;
> "I think its quite rediculous to think that a rod
> will pick up vibration from a slack line."
>
> Why do you think that's ridiculous?
> What do you base that assumption on?

Vibrations can not work their way up a slack line. Impossible. Take a 2 foot long peice of mono between your finger tips, with the slack sitting on a table. Flick the loose end. You can NOT feel the vibration even transfer to youre bare fingers. Youre certainly not going to feel it come all the way up a rod, through a handle and then to youre fingers with 20 ft of line out. Put tension on the line and do the same. Totally different.

Larry Damore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vibrations can not work their way up a slack line.
> Impossible. Take a 2 foot long peice of mono
> between your finger tips, with the slack sitting
> on a table.

Larry, you will never do this sitting at a table, you have to hit the water. It may not be vibration in the line, just merely a change in the sag that hits the rod tip and sends the info down to the hand. The line NEVER has to become tight, just a slight change in order to detect this by hand. Yes, the weight of 30'-40' of braid (2/10 PP in my case) seems far to miniscule to actually have this effect if the sag is "bounced" a bit by a fish, but it works wonderfully well.

I was in disbelief of this myself while feeling it the first time, but it's not even near impossible. Actually, it's quite useful for some techniques while drifting light jigs in current or where the line can be airialized with a long blank.

Mr. Moore, I concur with your point about sensitive rods cutting down on the "leafy" fish. I'll add to that dragging through weedbeds and being able to tell a fish from a plant. Crawling jigs over gravel/rocks NOT setting the hook because one just bumped a boulder or the lure got skated over some small gravel. Setting the hook at anything does more to screw-up a good retrieve and provocation crawl than anything else on fickle days. Sensitivity can help the angler discriminate and make better choices at what to react to and equally important what not to.

Ah, that underwater bass video from the Seventies! Anyone on board think they might be able to detect that with the last rod off your bench? Yeah, bass do indeed take things lightly, but I've caught more than a bunch just waiting for that slow rolled Colorado blade to miss one beat. Same for spoons at the right cadence, cranks aren't that hard either. The caveat being one has to be holding the right tool with a bit of practice under their belt.

I know it happens sometimes, but that video footage is given way too much weight as time, technology, and technique marches on. That infamous bass example in the video might be caught more often these days, folks just take it for granted how far things have progressed. That said, no matter what the equipment, angler's still need to learn how to read and interpret via the tackle of choice. Theory is good, but practice is far better and often more revealing.

joseph arvay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Larry, you will never do this sitting at a table,
> you have to hit the water. It may not be
> vibration in the line, just merely a change in the
> sag that hits the rod tip and sends the info down
> to the hand. The line NEVER has to become tight,
> just a slight change in order to detect this by
> hand. Yes, the weight of 30'-40' of braid (2/10
> PP in my case) seems far to miniscule to actually
> have this effect if the sag is "bounced" a bit by
> a fish, but it works wonderfully well.
>
> I was in disbelief of this myself while feeling it
> the first time, but it's not even near impossible.
> Actually, it's quite useful for some techniques
> while drifting light jigs in current or where the
> line can be airialized with a long blank.
>

Joseph,

You did a great job of explaining what I was having trouble putting into words. Thanks!

jeremy