On a 7'10" heavy fast action pitching rod,spiral rod, would 13+tip be enough, to keep the line off the, I know that i would have to do a static test, I just seeing if i am on the right track.

you shouldn't have to worry about line touch if its a spiral wrap. And 13 plus a tip seems like a bit to many even if it was a all on top set up.

I'm with Mitch, too many guides. For similar rods with a simple spiral, I've used 10 guides and a tip.

My preference on a 7'10" to 8ft pitching rod setup is 11 plus the tip.

While two more would not hurt I think the extras are unnecessary

10 may work fine, I just prefer the results of the 11+tip

On the split grip part how far do you think the split should be? And Thank you for your replies.

Lots of stuff to think about here.

The introduction of the micro rods to fishermen has many priorities. Using the correct number of guides on a rod is highly desired.

When the micro rods were introduced there were limited choices for guides and tip tops. One thing that initially plagued "all on top" rodbuilders was "tip top tangle" when using "limp" line like braid. This tangle effect can be minimized by adding a guide on the tip of the rod - some are placed under 2 inches from the tip top. Several production rodbuilders added this guide to cut down on warranty returns due to tip top damage. If the blank were to deflect enough on the very tip it would snap before line touch became a real issue. Once the short distance is started with a close tip guide the next thing that occurs is progressive spacing takes control - you can not sell rods with irregular guides spacings - the market will not purchase them. This is the primary reason that rods will end up with too many guides - if they are put where needed they will not sell.

Another planned marketing advantage of the micro rods was to "suggest" to the purchaser that the more guides a rod had on it the better - many who consider purchasing a micro rods are now counting the number of guides to make a purchase decision.

My (color) rod is prettier than yours" and it has more guides than yours so Mine is Better! Na Na Nah Na Nah NA!

I saw a seven foot Yellow Jig Rod in the rod locker of an Elite" boat last Thursday that had 13 - 4.0 micro guides all on top.

The split distance will determine itself. First decide on the handle length for the rod and technique you are building for. Then make the front grip long enough to be comfortable, most people prefer around 2.5 inches but you may want to make it longer or shorter to suit your own preferences. Lastly make the rear grip long enough to be comfortable for 2 handed casting, I find 2 inches about right, but a little longer or shorter may work better for you. After you get all these lined up the split distance will be set for you, the length of the handle sections pretty much stays the same on most rods, the distance between the grips will be determined by the handle length which may vary significantly based on application.

Again, Mike is right on the money. Don't get stuck on 2.5" between the split. Make sure you pay attention to what you want the overall handle length to be and the front and rear grip. Then, the split will take care of itself. Depending on the rod I build my split can be 3" to 6". Again, the overall length is what's important, not just the split.

I'm going to have to start following Mike and just add "Ditto"!!

AND, to add to Bill's post - there are several factory micro rods just introduced that in my opinion are not impressive.

Sorry about all these ?'s, but I got to know , when I place the 180degree guide, would it be like 2/3 up the rod from the butt, and, or 1/3 from the tip? I read about the test where the rod is bent until the tip is at a 90 degree angle, and the rod is set at a 45 degree's, would that be a better way to place the 180?

That guide placement is going to be determined by what style of spiral wrap you are going to do, it is different for the different styles. A simple spiral, you place all your guides like you would with them all on top, flip all but the first guide and then you bumper guide is set between the first and second guide. On some of the others that use more guides to make the transition, the spacing of those guides need to be considered in the initial layout of the guides. When I have used them, the spacing between each of the transion guides was on average of 4 inches.

Lorenzo,
With a spiral wrapped rod, you really don't need to have any more guides on the rod, than if the rod were a conventional style spinning rod.
i.e. after the transition guides, the line is on the underside of the rod and will never touch the rod, no matter the blank flex.

You could actually get by with about 6 or 7 guides on this blank. With a fast action rod, you generally want to load the tip with an extra guide or to to allow the line to follow the shape of the loaded blank.

Simply put - put the blank into a heavy flex. then, simply put a guide anywhere it is necessary to allow the line to follow the shape of the heavily flexed rod.

If you need 3 guides, so be it. If you need 5 guides, so be it. If you need 20 guides, so be it.

My guess is that for this particular blank that about 6 or 7 guides would be just fine.

Just to a test layout with just enough guides to get the line to follow the general shape of the blank and then do some line pull and blank tests with the guides just taped to the blank. You will quickly find that you can have a wonderful actiing rod - (expecially wiht a spiral wrapped rod) with a fairly small number of guides.


With respect to the distance of the split grip. Just make the distance the distance that pleases you. It can be any where from 1/2 inch to 30 inches. Consider how the rod is going to be used. i.e. one handed casting, two handed casting, to be used in a rod holder, to be always hand held, to have a weight in the butt cap for balancing, to not have a weight in the butt cap for balancing, whether you want the tip heavy, whether you want the tip up or whether you want the tip balanced.

Consider all of these factors and make the distance of the grip the distance that takes care of any of these or other questions that you might come up as a result of having a different split grip spacing.

One could generally say that the typical split grip distance is such that the total overall back grip length would be about the same distance as if the back grip were a conventional full grip. Then, just make the distance greater or lesser than that distance, depending on how you feel out the rod and its potential uses.

Roger