i am building a spinning rod on a st.croix 6'3" med.power ex-fast action blank. my problem is how many guides to use,6 guides dont seem like enough and 7 seems like too many! i used the 27x meathod for placement of the intersect guide.using 6 OR 7 guides requires moving the intersect guide a good bit using static guide placement.will that matter? does anyone have any experiance with this blank? anyone know how many guides st.croix uses on a factory rod using this blank?
thanks for any advice.Scott

[www.rodbuilding.org]

This is a good place to start.

What reel are you using and what is the spool measurement? What are your current guide spacings? It's hard to give advice without knowing where you're at right now. I wouldn't think you'd have a problem with 7 guides on that rod...unless you're using a large reel.

jeremy

Scott,
For that rod blank, I normally use 6-8 guides.
I have found that with the extra fast tip of this blank - I use a spacing something like 3, 3 1/2, 4 inches for the first three guides measuring from the tip on down toward the butt.
I have found that with this very fast tip on this blank, that if you go to any wider spacing on the tip section of this blank, you don't get a good uniform loading on the tip.

Then, the rest of the guides follow the normally wider spacing increasing toward the butt of the rod.
Depending on your preference, you can keep the lower guides spaced closer resulting in the larger number of guides, or space the lower guides out a bit more and come up with 6 or 7 guides.

Take care
Roger

I have built on that blank. I stick to 27X for the choker guide and don't move it. I used 8 guides plus a tiptop. the guides from the tiptop to the choker are space equal distances.

...................

Scott you can go to the St. Croix web site and submit a question on guide sizes and spacing for that blank and they will tell you how the factory rods are built.
That will give you a reference point.

Scott I'm sorry to raise another question.

But im building a spinning rod using the NGC also,
Tom do you static test and change the location of the running guids or does the equal spacing put them in the correct location?
I ask because on a 8' 6" IST1025F Batson blank I am using 9 guides and a tip and still not accurately static testing it. should I static test them or just place the runners equal distances apart?

again I'm sorry Scott, hopefully Toms' answer will help both of us

Andrew
Port Orchard, WA
The Pacific Northwest

Equal spacing between the tiptop and choker provides more than enough guides to provide adequate stress distribution. Provided, of course, that you're using enough guides to begin with.


..............

Isn't the recommended number of guides for an 8' 6" rod 9 guides?
If not I should I make another order with Utmost! hah

thank you Tom for your help


Thanks again Scott for bringing up the NGC

Andrew
Port Orchard, WA
The Pacific Northwest

hey thanks for the help guys,just to make sure my math is right, how does this sound?spool dia,1.675'' x 27 = 45.225'' from reel spool face to choker guide.this leaves18.875'' from the choker to the tip. hey Tom,using 8 guides how many guides from the choker to the tip do you use ?say choker + ? then the tiptop. thanks again scott

Andrew.
There are lots of methods and formulas, web sites etc to use as general guides for setting up guide spacing.

I use the very simple method.

I have the handle in place with the reel mounted.
I then, began to pull down on the tip of the rod.
I make note, of the first location on the rod where the rod begins to bend or have a significant flex. I mark this spot and use it for the first guide location.
Generally, this location will be at a point that is between 1/4 and 1/3 rd the rod blank distance from the tip.
I then work from that point toward the tip and add enough guides spaced close enough to have the line properly load the blank. This may be 1, 2, 3, or 4 guides in front of the first guide. The spacing may be equal, or it may have a slight increase in distance as the guides progress from the tip - to the location of the first guide that has been placed.

Then, from the location of the first guide spaced, I will simply work back toward the butt of the rod, adding as many - but only as many guides as are needed to allow the line to follow the coutour of the loaded blank.
Generally speaking from the placement of the first guide - which is at about the 1/4 or 1/3 blank length from the tip, the guides will be at increased distances betweeen each other.

Also, when marking the blank for guide spacing, I NEVER worry about the size of the reel. I really don't think that the reel size has anything to do with the spacing of the guides. Yes, the reel size and or height can have a bearing on the guide size and or height of the guide, but I don't belive that it should have any bearing on the SPACING of the guides.


It is really very simple gives a very good guide placement and it works very well.

You can measure, scheme, and calculate, but it is very simple to simply look at the loaded rod and place guides where they are needed to have the line follow the loaded blank.

Take care
REW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2010 08:13PM by roger wilson.

Using the 27X method means after having placed your choker guide, divide the remaining length to the tip, in your case 18.875", into equal lengths no more than 5" and no less than 4" apart. Using your length of 18.875" means using three guides spaced 4.72" apart, between the choker guide and the tip . You can fine tune this if desired but there's no need to.

Thanks,
Chad Huderle

Huderle Custom Rods
Prior Lake, MN

Chad,
On that particular guide, a distance of 4.72 inches is really too far apart. This is a very very fast tipped rod, and by having the guides this far apart will not allow the line to properly load the rod.

For most rods, the formula works fine. But when you get unique blanks you need to adjust accordingly.

Roger

Many folks use an equal guide spacing for the first 3 or 4 guides. Again, for some blanks this is fine. But for other blanks it is not the best way to go.

One way to look at this distance issue is to use a caliper to measure the diameter of the tip section of the rod blank, i.e. the first two feet of the rod blank at 3 inch intervals from the tip down.

You will find that the amount of flex and or lack of flex will follow the diameter of the rod blank pretty closely. So, if you find that you have a rod tip section with very little taper or diameter change for the first foot to 18 inches, you will certainly wan tto be considering the idea of having equally spaced guides. i.e. equal diameters indicates a relatively constant flex deflection under load.

Conversely, as you go from the tip toward the butt of the rod taking meausurements and find that their is a significant taper in the measured portions of the tip sections, you will likely be wanting to place your guides at more and more widely spaced interfals as you proceed from the tip toward the butt. i.e. larger diameters of the rod blank, tend to indicate a stiffer blank and hence larger guide spacing.


Good luck
Roger.

Scott,

On a spool of that size and a choker guide at that distance, you really only need the butt guide, 2 transition guides, the choker guide and then about 5 guides equi-distant or 4 guides spaced progressively. Since you know the butt, transition and choker guide will be set, try both set ups with the running guides and see which you prefer.

................

That would be either 8 or 9 guides on a six and a half foot rod. I think you could possibly drop one more and still get the job done.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use the very simple method.
>
> I have the handle in place with the reel mounted.
>
> I then, began to pull down on the tip of the rod.
>
> I make note, of the first location on the rod
> where the rod begins to bend or have a significant
> flex. I mark this spot and use it for the first
> guide location.
> Generally, this location will be at a point that
> is between 1/4 and 1/3 rd the rod blank distance
> from the tip.
> I then work from that point toward the tip and add
> enough guides spaced close enough to have the line
> properly load the blank. This may be 1, 2, 3, or 4
> guides in front of the first guide. The spacing
> may be equal, or it may have a slight increase in
> distance as the guides progress from the tip - to
> the location of the first guide that has been
> placed.
>
> Then, from the location of the first guide spaced,
> I will simply work back toward the butt of the
> rod, adding as many - but only as many guides as
> are needed to allow the line to follow the coutour
> of the loaded blank.
> Generally speaking from the placement of the first
> guide - which is at about the 1/4 or 1/3 blank
> length from the tip, the guides will be at
> increased distances betweeen each other.
>



Roger - I really like the way you put that. I may have to build another rod to see how it works out.