Hello from germany, i´m 22 and leave the house mostly with the BC :>

The next building project is a very thin matagi t-russell solid carbon, which should be predestinated for the lightest micro guides out there.

Some Pics, an exmaple for vertical fishing here: [translate.google.de]

Blank Data:

Length: 6 ft
Taper: ex-fast
Weight: 46g
Lure: max 3/8 (casting)
Power: M-ML mit L-Tip
Tip: 1.4mm
Butt:6.6mm
100% solid 30T Carbon mit einer 50T Carbon-Ummantelung
Made in Japan


The Reel will be a Presso with 4LB PE, targets will be Perches with Finesse, Jigs, Rigs, any softbaits.

Due to the blank diameter, i´m searching the smalles/lightest micro guides out there as well as the lightest Tip that fits on the 1.4mm ending. I heard of guys disclaiming tip-tops and using standard guides for the tip instead in oder of weight saving :P
Which micro guides would you use, maybe spiral wrapped?
The other problem are the winding checks (for the split grip) on a blank like that, the I.D should be 6mm, those are available, but the outer diameter is too low, is doesn´t fit to the Duplon.
Are there any checks with that measures?

Best regards from Europe :>

The PacBay Minima will be BY FAR the lightest guides you can get. But I think a size 4 is as small as they go. But even those are about half the weight of ceramic micros.

Rob is correct, in fact in an upcoming issue of RodMaker there will be an article from a builder who took the time to carefully weigh various components and systems and he found the #4 Minimas to be half the weight of even 2.5mm ceramic single foot guides. Of course the bigger picture is that neither weighed very much - something like 2 grams for one set versus 1 gram for the other.

............

I have actually put all of them on the scale, and my numbers don’t come out that way, the #4 Minima guides are not even close to the lightest guides. They are lighter than a #6 ceramic guide and have close to the same opening so they are a good choice for some applications and I do like them. The lightest guides that I have actually weighed are the LSG3.5. Here are my actual weights #4 Minima .08g, #4 Alconite .06g, #3 Batson .05g, LSG3.5 .03g. Even if those absolute values are slightly off they were all weighed on the same scale within a few seconds of each other so the relative weights should be correct and the measurements were perfectly repeatable. As you can see the LSG3.5 weighs less than half what a minima weighs, Bobby Faezel weighed LSG3.5 compared to TLSG3.5 guides and they were almost exactly the same with the Ti guides coming out ever so slightly heavier so there is no weight benefit there. It is possible that the new 2mm Batson weighs less but I wouldn’t count on it since the Batson design is inherently heavier than the Fuji design so they will always be heavier for the same size ring opening.

Mike,

My own weights for the Minima and Alconites are way different than yours. The Alconites aren't even close to the Minima. I found the LSG 3.5's to be roughly twice the weight of the Minimas. Generally I weigh 10 of each and then note the average for a single guide.

I may source a few of these other guides and weigh them as well.


................

Interesting, unfortunately I don’t have any more of the Minima guides I used all of them I had, but I have weighed the Alconite and LSG guides several times and always get the same numbers.

The other issue that Alex is up against is the sheer size of the guides, with a 1.4mm tip even if the Minima guides were lighter they would be out of scale on a blank that thin. For aesthetics I would say the smaller the better, and I don’t envy him having to wrap whatever guide he chooses on that blank.

You're right about that. There remains a problem of getting a nice flow to the tiptop on something such a fine diameter. There is something coming that may help, but to my knowledge it isn't ready for the market, yet.

..............

Another source here on rodbuilding weighted the LSG3.5 with .041g and the TLSG3.5 with .036.
Fuji MKSG-2.5 with .021g.
But for the major part in reducing weight - the Tip, whats useful here? The 1.4mm Tip needs a 3.5-Tube (US-Size to mm = 2.54*3.5/64 = 1.389mm), correct?
Or maybe better the MKSG2.5 for the top :D?

PS: I wont wrap that on my own, that guy wo build that Rods in the Link will wrap it, hes quite good at this job.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 09:48AM by Alex Kulinsky.

FWIW, I weighed 14 of the Batson BMKLG 2mm guides and they averaged .028 grams each.

No question about it:
Individual guide differences, and slight variations in individual guides and sight differences in scale accuracy will be reduced if you can take a very large number of guides - weigh the total and divide by the total number of guides weighed.

So, If you took 1000 of each of the guides and measured them - then divided by 1000 you would pretty much be guarenteed to be absolutely accurate.

The important thing - when we are speaking on this subject is NOT absolute accuracy - but differences.

So, as Mr. Kirkman pointed out - 10 of one sort of guides weigh twice as much as 10 of a different group of guides- I would agree about the difference.

After all - we don't really care about what is the absolute difference in weight between guides - the only thing that we are concerned about is the greater or less than factor.

As long as one uses a scale that is 100% repeatable - you will be able to absolutely be able to guarentee that one guide is different than another guide by measuring a large number of a particular guide at a time and then measuring the same large number of a similar guide on the same scale using the same technique.

Bottom line summary - all of the tiny guides are pretty light. Does it really matter to the rod user and the rod action and to the fish being caught whether there is one extra gram of weight on a rod or not?
In particular, since the typical reel that is going to be put on this rod is in the range of several Ozs - even up to weights aproaching a 1/2 lb?


Take care
Roger

This is why I will not use them. Every post on guide weights, the weights all always different. I realize that nothing is -written in stone - but are scales all different ??

And if I did try them according to the Victors Scale the hard chrome is harder then stainless steel.

Are these numbers wrong ?? [rodcomponents.koolhost.com]

Bill - willierods.com

Bill Boettcher your quote::

"This is why I will not use them"

Seems to fit a lot of people who use this forum.

Some people who post on this forum know what these guides weigh and have attempted to share the information.

Others who do not know what the guides weigh or how they are used raise red flags.

Many try to determine what to do by reading internet forums. You will never get a concensus of opinion that will lead you to water by reading this or any other forum.

The micro rod business both production and custom is now quite large.

Market growth has outstripped present manufacturing capabilities

Take a look at one of the M&Ms Volumes that dealt with this very subject over a year ago!

[rodbuilding.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 03:33PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill

Some thing has to be consistent and that is why I wonder. How am I to find out EXACTLY how much they weigh ?? If I buy a scale, will I get the right readings or will mine be off ?? is it the scales or the user.

Also - correct me if I am wrong- but these guides are steel frames and steel rings. Why not just get single foot steel framed guides with out a ring at all ?? And with a hard chrome finish sense the hard chrome is - the hardest - ??

For that mater, since I do like the Ti Titan guides , stay with them

Performance. pretty does not catch me fish.

Bill - willierods.com

Ok, so the MKSG2.5 seems to be the lightest.
Theres no tip-top that goes with these micros, and anyway, is there any much relevance in sensitivity, when this exfast taper bends to the second or third micro and has to overcome the "heavy" Tip-Top, which weights ten times a 2.5MKSG?
What i want to say: If the first or second, and maybe the third mic from the top weight 0.06 or 0.18 together, the gaining in performence shouldn´t be relevant, when the tip matches about 90% in case of performance.

Is it possible to wrap a standard Mic on the top?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 04:30PM by Alex Kulinsky.

Bill,

Buy a quality jewler's scale. These range in price from about $50 to $2000. For the most part, anything that reads to .01 gram and costs you around $100 is going to be more than good enough for what you want to do here.

Most such scales can be quickly calibrated whenever needed by use of a 200 gram calibration weight. These cost about $5 to $10.

.................

Tom, you got a quality scale?
What weights did you get for the Minima and LSG3.5?

Anglers have accepted micro rods.

This simple message is important to fishermen.

"What are the advantages of a fishing rod using micro guides?

Anglers' place a high priority on the sensitivity and balance of a fishing rod. Reducing the tip section weight of a fishing rod has a major impact on the "in hand feel" of the rod.

A set of micro guides weigh 85% less than a set of standard guides. The lightweight of the micro rod raises the bar for many desired performance characteristics."

The $ 9.95 digital scale got us this far!

This thread resembles a previous one now almost two years old - the Alps argument is still holding some back!

[rodbuilding.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 07:32PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill Stevens Wrote:
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> Anglers have accepted micro rods.
>

Not so fast! While I have always believed in the rule to use the smallest guides possible that will still do the job, the idea that all fishermen want or accept micro guides is more than a stretch. Most do not even know about them. I think we need to be realistic when making such statements.

Peter you are the one that used the word "all fishermen".

I did not! At least the writer of the marketing text was gender sensitive.

Will you say that "anglers have not accepted micro rods"?

If so I will say not so fast!

Marketing does not mandate the the prefix of "some" within the context of use.

Word games played out on this forum will not slow down the sale of micro rods.

You read it the way you want and so will I. I find it a shame that the new builders who exposed to this.

I have a pretty good feel for the number of custom rod builders who are actively building these rods. Many who use this forum would be highly surprised if the actual number was known. At this time 13 production rod companies have roll out micro rods in store for ICAST. The manufactures and vendors who support this forum have a major investment in the word micro. The micros have arrived and the market will grow in the future.

Why have do you insist on the use of the phrase " the smallest guide possible that will do the job"?

I am very realistic and so are the people that have sold thousands of MICRO RODS in the recent past!

What of I decided to call FLY rods "the long waving sticks that throw line"?

And you are right about most have not heard about them!

If rod builder new to the forum inquires about the micro guide weight issue why are the previously posted numbers not quoted or linked with search? That would be a better answer for new person than bringing up the same doubts that have been dealt with previously.

I have said too much now and to those who do not know what is at stake I apologise.

Bill Stevens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> Why have do you insist on the use of the phrase "
> the smallest guide possible that will do the job"?
>
>

Because thats the proper sized guide for ANY rod. On some rods it may be what you call a micro guide while on other rods it will be something larger. What you do NOT want to do is convince builders that micro guides are the way to go on ALL rods. They are not. And only bad press can come from using them on rod builds where they are not appropriate.