I've been asked to build a spey rod using the 'Roberts Roll" for guide placement, although I understand the advantages that this would provide to a casting/mooching rod I just can't see what it would accomplish for a fly rod. has anyone ever considered this or at least heard of it being done?

Thanks
Colin

If the "Roberts Roll" is the same as a spiral wrap, it wouldn't be applicable for a fly rod, therfore it would not accomplish anything in my eyes. It would be a very miserable rod to fish with! Did the guy say "why" he wants the Roberts Roll?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2010 09:36PM by Paul Rotkis.

The purpose of a spiral wrap is to put the guides on the bottom of the rod. Since the guides on a fly rod are already on the bottom of the rod, there is nothing else to do. You already have a "Robert's Roll" (he meant, "Robert's Wrap) effect on all fly type rods - the guides are already on the bottom.


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Tell him you'll do it for him, but it'll cost him an extra $100. I bet he pays it.

now thats funny !

From what he has told me, this has been a topic of discussion between himself and a well known European spey caster for quite a few years and just has never been put to the test, your comments mirror what I have told him. In the end I will probably end up building this rod for him just to answer his curiosities, and then probably just as quickly rebuild it.

Colin

How do you plan to implement a spiral wrap on a fly-spey rod? Since the guides are already on the bottom, you have nowhere to go other than up to the top, which will completely defeat the purpose of a spiral wrap in the first place.

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Colin - if the "Mad Hatter" wants a "Robert's Roll" on a Spey fly rod - why not have some fun and build it - life's too short to not introduce some laughter when you can. I once built a "Robert's Roll" on a high end Bass casting rod to prove a point to some die hard tournament bass angler's - that the spiral wrap does not decrease or increase casting distance. As any casting rod the first guide was on top - then in 2 guides I was on the bottom - 2 more guides and back on top - 2 more guides "Rolled" to the bottom and stayed there to the tip. It became the most requested of my Demo rods - until someone was so enchanted with the rod they kept it - I still can't figure out who actually has it . It cast as well as any eyes up or spiral wrap rod - but looked so strange - anyone that used it usually could not stop laughing long enough to SET THE HOOK!

So in your case - start on the side with the reel - "Roll in 2 to the top - 2 more to the bottom and stay there. You now have a 360 degree "Robert's roll" which should be quite a conversation piece - but it is what he asked for. It may even cast as well as an all eyes on the bottom where they belong - I have no idea - but it will be custom - as the ONLY one of its kind.

Hey I want to this guy casting with the reel on top LOL I can still remember the first Roberts Wrap I did. (Close to 15, 16 years ago). I was working in my shop late one night. The shop was right below a motel where some of the fishing guides were staying. Any way here they came at 1 AM from a night of partying. When I showed them my new rod. The first thing they said was . Balcombe what have you been drinking or smoking? LOL So I call all my Acid Rods, Drunk Rods. My play on words

Good Wraps Bob

This post has got me thinking. When I first read it my first thought were the same as Toms. "the guides are already on the bottom" so theres nowhere to roll. Now I have built many spey rods and I would like to just throw this into the mix and get some thoughts.
The major problems any spey rod runs into is loose joints due to the side strain involved in "spey casting" I always tape my joints with electrical tape to stop the twisting. The force of the line is 90 degrees to the guide leg when forming the D loop and tends to move the guide ring to the inside and up. This twisting is usually at it worst around the first ferrule.What if you modified the stripper(s) placment on the side and then just rolled it 90 to the bottom?

Then the force would work against you on the opposite side of the cast.

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It's not particularly unusual to see people fish with an open-face spin reel facing up and reeling backward. A spiral wrap would be just the ticket for such folks. Perhaps this guy flips his spey rod upside down and retreives line by reeling backward? I'd love to see this. Even more, I'd enjoy an explanation of how weight should be added to the rod to balance the upside-down reel.

I think Scott may be on the same train of thought as the person who asked me to build this. With a spey rod the power stroke is the back cast forming the D-loop, the forward cast is transferring that power out over the water and doesn't necessarily put as much strain on the rod.

I am thinking of doing a 180 degree spiral with the first guide(stripper) at 90 degrees to the bottom and then working the rest of the guides underneath gradually to the other side at 15 degree increments.

Colin

I do not understand the concept of the spey backcast being the "power stroke." Casting distance is proportional to line speed. Line speed depends upon the velocity of the rod tip and the stored energy in the loaded rod. Does the additional energy stored in the rod through a "power" backcast excede the lower speed of the rod tip resulting from a less "powerful" (slower) forecast?

Hi Phil, yes and no, with the spey type casts line speed is not as important as a properly formed D-loop and a good anchor. A lot of singlehand casters fall into a bit of a false sense of 'powering' the cast in order to get it out there and usually that ends up in a pile of line at the rod tip on the forward stroke as they are rushing the D-loop and not providing a good anchor.

My forward casting stroke is a short 6 to 8 inch 'flick' of the bottom hand, in essence it is all I need to 'steer' the power built up in the back cast, forward. Where as the back cast starts with the rod tip at the waters level and is raised (powered so to speak) through to the 2 o'clock position.

Colin

The most power will be required when fighting the fish, and that means the rod will be subject to twist and torque at that point if you have the guides on top of the rod.

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Thanks for the explanation, Colin. I'm unschooled and unskilled in spey casting. I have noticed that in overhead casting whenever the rod's forward speed decreases the rod immediately begins to unload. The only "power stroke" I am familiar with is an attempt to accelerate the rod, and I know in overhead casting power (speed) can not be added to the forecast until the backcast straightens out. I'm still unsure why reduced "power" (effort?) during a forecast would not result in shorter casts.

Tom, thats why I'm wondering if a 180 degree or 1/2 spiral will be of any benefit. We also use a lot of side pressure when fighting steelhead and salmon on our Vancouver Island Rivers and thats when we see a lot of breakage.

Colin

It's not going to have any effect on breakage.

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