I am still hearing Fishing Pros on TV referring to thier fishing rod has a soft tip or slow tip. What are they referring too. Fast tip, mod-fast or what ?

A soft tip, in relation to the rest of the rod, would indicate a fast action. A slow tip would indicate the opposite. Keep in mind that most fishermen, even the so called "pros" don't know the proper terminology for describing fishing rods. They often confuse action with power and vice versa. Even some of the low end manufacturers don't label rods according to industry definitions. How often have you heard a fisherman refer to a rod as having a "heavy action." No such thing exists.

This is why it's so important for custom rod builders to really talk to their customers and make sure they're on the same page when discussing things like action, power and speed.

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Jon,
Tom is right on.
In addition, I think that when folks think of a soft tip, they are referring to a rod - that irrespective of the rest of the rods power and or action has a tip that is soft enough to give a good visual indication of a strike, by bending much more than the rest of a rod on a bite.

Here in the midwest when we fish for Walleye on a live bait rod; we generally like a rod that meets these requirements.

i.e. a rod that has a tip that will give a nice visual indication of a strike before much of anything else is either felt or seen on the rod.

Take care
Roger

Live bait rods are good examples of something with a soft tip. You want to be able to cast without tearing the bait off the hook. Some rods for certain lures will have a tip that vibrates and imparts just the right action. Even some popping rods could be called soft tipped. In the cases above the power of the rod could be anything from light to heavy.

Now the speed of the rod is something that I find hard to convey. I find it even harder to judge from a catalog listing. Price seems a good clue!

Russell,
The equation for a rods resonant frequency gets a little complicated because a blank tapers and has varying wall thickness but the stiffness devided by the mass gets you in the ball park. The stiffer the blank is the faster it will respond and the lower the mass the faster it will respond. If you want the actual equation let me know.
A fast action blank will result in a rod that will give the fisherman a better visual indication of the fish's bite but it will not be as good as a rod with slower action or lower action angle in terms of sensitivity or feel. Everything is a trade off.

For feeling the slightest tick of a walleye biting, which is better, ISB 822.5 or IP843? The 822.5 has an Xfast tip with medium power and the IP843 is MF with medium power. Both have similar lure and line ratings. If I am understanding Emery correctly the IP843 would be more sensitive??

Thank you
Steve

Yes and no. In my opinion you are not comparing apples to apples. The ISB822.5 is intended to be a bass spin blank while the IP843 is an inshore popping blank. The ratings have totaly different meanings. That is why the equation Emory is talking about is so valuable. You can obviously use the blanks for any purpose you decide but you need to be mindful of the fact that they are two different animals. As Emory pointed out the blank wall thickness and the taper are different. My personal walleye rods are built on the CB70M. I build them as spin rods, the IP series is pretty close to the same blank just larger diameter and thinner walls.


Vic

I still have a lot to learn and get a little confused when we start talking about sensitivity. I have built on both the 822.5 and the Ip843. I used the 822 for vertical jigging and the 843 for pulling cranks and 3-way rigs, all for walleyes.

A fast action blank will result in a rod that will give the fisherman a better visual indication of the fish's bite but it will not be as good as a rod with slower action or lower action angle in terms of sensitivity or feel. Everything is a trade off.

This comment above just made me think that maybe I should of been using my 3-way rod for jigging.

Thanks Vic

Steve

Your use for the two blanks is correct.

The reason for the moderate action on the crank rod has to do with keeping the fish engaged with constant hook pressure on the trebles without pull out - a shock absorber.

Thanks for a concise explanation, Emory, and thanks for reminding us that there's always a trade-off. It's also wise to remember that the rod is but one component of the system we fish with. For example, it would be folly to agonize over a rod's sensitivity while connecting the rod to the hook with monofilament which stretches 25%.

I think what has be considered when going to a “moderate action” such as with a crankbait rod (so as to keep the fish engaged with constant hook pressure on the trebles without pull out- shock absorber), is that a lower powered rod may be called for. Otherwise, the “moderate action” tip would likely be stiffer than a higher powered rod with a “fast” action. Many times when discussing a blanks “Action”, “Power” is not mentioned. Although the two are different characteristics, they are not totally independent.
When one of the “pros” refers to his rod as having a soft or slow tip, he may, in fact, mean a fast tip. Or, in the case of crankbait use, actually mean a slow or moderate action, which seems to be the popular trend for crankbaits. If he stated “Medium power with Moderate Action” (if that’s what he was trying to say) it would be more descriptive, but not totally definitive, since “power” and “action” are relative.
I can't help but wonder...how many popular trends might be started by the misinterpretation of something a "pro" says (Ha!).

Thanks Bill,
Now I have to rethink things. Looks like I will be grabbing the 822.5 and heading out for walleyes in the near future. I have always vertical jigged with my CB70m and used it for cranks as well. I think I can feel the difference in weight between the jig and a fish a little better with it. Asumming I miss the hit that is. Matter of personal preference?

Vic

The Murray brothers, Bobby and Billy, were among the first to try and get bass anglers to use the proper terminology when describing rod attributes. They were instrumental in the "Bass Fishing Research University" (product of Indiana State University, I think) which toured the U.S. back around 1982 or so. They spent considerable time explaining the difference in power, action and speed in order to try and get everybody on the same page.

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Victor,
Lots to think about when you are looking for a walleye rod.
I personally like a moderate or even a slow action rod with a "soft" tip for live bait rigging for walleye.
The reason for this is that I think that generally speaking, live bait fishing is NOT a feel bite, but rather, a visual bite.

The idea of walleye live bait fishing is to pull a bait along the bottom on a weighted line and if anything is detected that might be a bite- the line is released to allow the walley to finish inhaling the bait.
Many times, when folks use a fast or extra fast rod, there is not enough give in the overall blank before the walleye feels the resistance and drops the bait. However, the use of a moderate action rod with a soft tip allows the tip of the rod t move a good distance with very little resistance to allow the fisherman to feed line to the waiting walleye.

Contrast this with a vertical jig. In this case, the fishing is done on a tight line. The bite is also a touch indication, rather than a visual indication. So, when vertical jigging, the fisherman needs to have ultra sensitive feel in the handle of the rod, and the tip of the rod needs to be stiff enough to be able to snap the hook home for a good hook up.
So, in this case, the use of a medium, medium light with a fast, but stiff tip is necessary for optimum performance.

Contrast the need for a rod to pitch very light jigs in shallow water as is often the case for spring and fall fishing. In this case, the use of a much lighter rod - like a light or an ultra light action rod with an extra fast action, to give both a great feel in the handle, but also a decent visual indication of the light hits that often happen in this situation. It is important to be able to flip out light - 1/32, 1/16th, and 1/8th oz jigs out a relatively short distance but still have ultimate feel for the strike.


For overall fishing in the spring and fall, it is tough to beat a 6'6" rod in a medium light action with a pretty soft tip. This would be the rod that I would use for walleye fishing in the spring and fall, if I could only use one rod.
As a matter of fact, this is why I seldom use a Loomis blank for most of my spring and fall walleye fishing, because I have found that generally speaking, the tip on most of the useful rods tend to be just a touch on the stiff side. Conversely, if I am vertical jigging, I will reach for the Loomis every time because their blanks have really been optimized for this particular job.

Good luck
Roger

Thanks Roger,

Great explanation.

Thanks for this thread!
As I read I will learn,
mikeb