I guess I feel the need to air this out a little, I'm sure that there will be counterpoints, etc... but for all those who said this would NOT happen...

I originally posted: [rodbuilding.org] - (Thanks Robert for confirming you heard it as well some time ago)

Now it's official - from the Kistler website (tradename of rod removed):
"Our New Limited Edition XXXXX rods will definitely help you catch more fish and enjoy your hobby more than ever before. The best part of this entire project is the special graphite blanks being built by the one and only Gary Loomis and his team at "North Fork Composites"! You know that man who built GLoomis rods and proved to the world that he can build the best graphite blank on earth. Well, we all are now able to once again take advantage of his next generation of technology in graphite. Lighter, stronger and more sensitive than any other rod I have ever tested, period. That's all for now but there's much more to come in the next month's newsletter...hold your breath."

Part two: I'm sure this will raise objections and I will be told how it's a different market, maybe that I'm off base, etc - but when you can call an OEM manufacturer, select the blank type, guide type, wrap styles, etc - how is that vastly different than what custom builders do?

And if you don't know what I mean - this is on the same website:
"Your very own Custom designed rod with everything from your favorite length and shaped handle, color of threads, quality of guides and even a personalized engraving option plus much more."

With the following pricing for micro rods:
"If you want us to re-wrap your current rods with our new MICRO guides, we can do it now.
Here are your options:
Fuji Aluminum Oxide - $40
Fuji Alconite - $60
Fuji SIC - $90
Prices subject to change.
We can put any guide quality on any of your rods. "

Take note of the change in direction offered by a major manufacturer. We can all learn from it.

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I'm not sure what you're looking for. They will be using blanks built by North Fork but these will not necessarily be the North Fork blanks which are offered to the custom builder. Nearly all blank manufacturers build blanks for commercial rod companies. But they are rarely the same blanks that the blank maker offers under its own brand to custom builders.

As far Kistler offering their version of custom rods, this will be a great boon to custom rod builders. The prices quoted by Kistler will do nothing but help increase what custom builders are able to charge for their work. Smart builders will intuitively understand how to take advantage of this great opportunity.

..................

That's interesting. They are in competition with they're own blank customers.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far Kistler offering their version of custom
> rods, this will be a great boon to custom rod
> builders. The prices quoted by Kistler will do
> nothing but help increase what custom builders are
> able to charge for their work. Smart builders will
> intuitively understand how to take advantage of
> this great opportunity.


Agreed.

In addition, 50% of a custom rod builder's job SHOULD be consulting. Kistler can’t offer that, period. So … if we can keep even with Trey, $400-500 custom rods, on the production end of things – then we are still twice as effective. Personally, I don't have a problem with the requirements to compete.

This initative by Kistler will drive the “custom” approach to rod building/ordering to a wider audience. How can that possibly be anything but a positive for our group? IMO, the ones that should actually have any concerns at all are other production companies.

Jim -



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 11:43AM by Jim Gamble.

Just sharing info... something to talk about on a Saturday morning inbetween house chores.

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As to cost, anyone here regularly offer a complete guide tear down rewrap and refinish new guides for $40?

Mo

You got a point Mo... I know I don't.

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I would venture a guess thats a pretty generic cost for pretty simple wraps. I bet the price can go up just like ours when you call to order and get details.

Thinking about Mo's point a little more... given this includes stripping them down and then rewrapping (so additional time involved) makes you wonder about the OEM pricing for guides. Just a thought. If there is a jump down in blank prices at that quantity, I'm sure there is in guides as well. Has to be for there to be a profit after paying someone to rewrap unless this is being done as a wash.

Also - what kind of warranty goes with them - not mentioned.

(Sure I am picking it apart - but looking at how other people do business makes mine better as well.)

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I'm missing something here. It sounds like some think that North Fork is making RODS for Kistler. What I read in this is that they are making a line of BLANKS for them. As far as I know about every blank manufacturer makes blanks for other rod companies. I doubt that any one makes/sells blanks to cystom builders only.

I think that we worry to much about what commercial companies do. If we do our job right, they shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on us

I think that by them offering "custom handles, etc) they are just reinforcing the fact that commercial rods CAN be improved on and I feel very confident that in the custom area they can't hold a candle to any of us

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Trey and Al -

The M&Ms wish you well stripping and rewrapping with micros at the direction of your customers - we decided early on that a new build using the correct micro guides properly fit our business models. I have a lot of micro rods in service in the Texas area and if one my rods shows up in your shop for a repair due to a loose ring please do not substitue with another brand or size. Your repair service will save the fishermen on shipping charges when sending rods back to the original builder.

Gon Fishn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2009 11:20PM by Bill Stevens.

Blank manufactures who design blanks for other companies are using that companies specs. not theirs. This way there is no conflict of interest. Even using their specs to match rods you can not get a complete even comparison

Good Wraps Bob

North Fork has just unveiled a line of rod blanks for me too. Same for you too!

Guess what - every MB709 I cut the 2" off the butt of - I can say is a totally different rod than the ones you have. Now mine are 6'10" designed for a specific technique, I change the specs around a little, etc. I have different rods than you do.

Sorry to be a little cynical on this one, but that's the truth. How does a customer know the difference when the ROD maker touts the BLANK manufacturer? No where in there does it say they are specially made, specificially made, etc. Just made.

Sorry guys - but a lot of y'all are the same ones who said this rod maker wouldn't tout the blank manufacturer. I agree - in the past that's usually been a mum's the word topic. Maybe the game changed a little on that.

I think everyone would benefit from figuring out how to make a profit doing $40 guide rewraps...

"I feel very confident that in the custom area they can't hold a candle to any of us" - that's what got the Big 3 in a lot of trouble too.

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I have sold multiple rods this season to a former Kistler bass guy. He looked at what he could get custom compared to a factory Kistler at $250-$300, and was sold. I haven't checked them out, but I am sure they will do nothing but advertise the craft as being better than factory rods, and it didn't cost us a dime!

Strip and re-wrap with micros will be interresting, as the layout/spacing is different (or should be) than standard guides. I bet they will just strip the old guides and replace with micro's in the same location, which will make for some so-so rods.

Oh - and any strip and re-wrap has got to be priced per guide, not per rod! Big difference between a 5'10" dock skipper and a 7'6" flippin' stick.

It will be interresting!

Marc M. - I take exception to your post!

In the last sentence I would suggest changing the "will be" to IS!

Take a look at Robert Russell's post above - maybe fishermen will decide to change out the 13 guides on the Skeet Reese Signature rod - A lot of those could effect Kistler's bottom line.

Rod companies that have their blanks made at any of the various no-name oriental blank manufacturing plants generally do not tout the names of the company they get their blanks from. Obviously Kistler sees a marketing opportunity by playing off the Loomis name.

............

Alex that is why you are a custom rod designer. You take a raw product and design it the way you want it to function. Any of you who have "built" a hot car engine know what I am talking about. You bore, shave, remove fuel systems and add a blower. Now you have gone from a 440 to a 725 hot pony. It is the same principle here. Not every blank out there acts the way you want it to, until you modify it. As for Kistler are they saying their blanks are made by NFC? If they are I bet there is a difference between NFC and Kistler's blanks. Just a thought

Good Wraps Bob

Bob - very plainly they are saying it. First post on here was quoted from their site.

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No, if that quote is from their website they aren't actually saying that they're using North Fork blanks. It's a subtle play on words. They say that they are using blanks built by Gary and his team at North Fork. There is a difference.

................

Good point - devil in the details... as always.

Be interesting to see all the details - like Marc's point about # of guides, etc.

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