I am having a problem with my tiger wrap. I followed the instructions as far as I know. I used Metallic Red, Copper, and Gold. Not sure if metallic makes a difference. I burnished the base layer very aggressively. Put on 1 layer lite flexcoat and 4 layers high build flexcoat. Then used the Metallic red, starting from the opposite end from the base layer. I removed the 2 sacrificial threads. Now It just looks like metallic red thread wrapped around the rod. The red is very predominant. Does metallic thread not work for tigerwraps, or should the top thread not be the darkest color? I have on layer of lite flexcoat on it now and not sure if I should try and remove the top thread and start over with the copper or gold. Please help.

Rodbuilding, cheaper than therapy.

John,
When you wrapped the top, did you wrap in the opposite direction as the base? Typically, the base should be high contast colors such as black and white, or black and yellow. From your message it is difficult to understand what were your base colors. I have pulled off a metallic tiger, using red as a top thread, but it took a couple of tries.
I have never tried a three thread tiger, so I may not be of much help. But the system is pretty straight forward. Contrasting under one direction burnish well, epoxy layers, top threads, with sacrificial wrapped in opposite direction, burnish well, pull out thread, epoxy, done. If the moire effect is not visualized, it is either the process or the the type of thread.
If you used Red, copper, and gold for the base, it may not work. Not enough contrast.
Hope this helps, Obed

Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else.
Leonardo da Vinci



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 10:17AM by Obed Patty.

You did not follow the instructions.

Obed has outlined them pretty well, but I would remind you that there is only 1 sacrificial thread, not 2. Something is amiss.

..............

Whose instructions did you follow?? The ones in Rodmaker from the actual inventors of the wrap or something you found on the internet??

I should have asked that. I'll amend my post to the following:

You did not follow the instructions as they appeared in RodMaker by the gentlemen who successfully pioneered this technique.

................

I used a tutorial from Jim Rippe and Doc Ski. It is for the 3 thread tiger wrap. With this according to the directions you pull 2 of the three threads on the top layer. I used three threads for the base and three for the top removing 2 of the 3 (leaving the red) I wrapped from left to right on the base and from right to left on the top)
How hard would it be to remove the top thread if I put on a single layer of flexcoat light? Should I even try to remove it and use the lighter color for the top layer? I just want to make sure I learn where I went wrong so I don't do it again. I am always trying to learn, especially from my mistakes.
Thanks, John

Rodbuilding, cheaper than therapy.

JOhn, I would suggest you get the backissue with the article. Learn it thay way first, then mess with 3 thread wraps.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

I am working on ordering several back issues and a subscription. I just like to jump in head first. This is just my second rod. My first rod I did weaving names and it turned out great, so I thought I would step it up.

Rodbuilding, cheaper than therapy.

Nothing wrong with jumping in head first, but sometimes you land in shallow water or hit your head on a rock.

If you follow the instructions in RodMaker, you're guaranteed to get perfect results on your first try.

I wish I could try to help you correct what you have now, but I'm not familiar with that particular method.

..........................

Tom,

Which back issue would this be in?

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Been there, done that! Almost every initial attempt at a newer technique in rod building has become more of a learning experince than a successful experience. I now relish those hands on lessons. A builder friend once told me, " You can seriously adjust the rules, once you thoroughly understand the rules!" I agree with most of the other posts here that you would be wise to go back to square one and get some solid, consistant results with that and then expand on your creations. Like Obed said, keys for me on Tiger Wraps have been A... solid contrasting colors on the bottom wrap, B...bottom threads very loosly wrapped so they can be easily burnished and moved, C... multi coats of finish to build up some depth, D... opposite direction wrapping of top threads. Enjoy the journey and the learning!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 11:23AM by Steve Cox.

Another key is the layout of the top threads. When wrapping the top I have found it necessary to make sure the top is even. Packing them while wrapping wasn't a good idea for me. I also burnish the top to make the color combination of the keeper and the sacrificial thread really even - no blotches. I think I might have used that red in the base layer and left black on top. Metallics are so vivid the two I did with the metallic on top I didn't really like. next I'll try one with the metallics under, black left on top.

Steve,

If you subscribe to RodMaker, the learning has already been done for you - we've already made all the mistakes for you, so you can start from a place that will immediately get you the desired results without having to go through the usual trial and error mess.

...............

Bill,

Volume 10 #2.

...............

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and some of the tutorial don't really mention is that you DON'T wrap tight on the base layer. You want to be able to push the thread around when burnishing. Use sharply contrasting colors on the base wrap for the best effect. Also, often the "Tiger" effect doesn't really show until after the wrap is completey done and finished

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

All these so called "tip and tricks" regarding the wrap were well covered in the RodMaker article.

Sometimes, spending a little money upfront is actually the far cheaper way to go about something.

..............

John,

As far a jumping in head first goes, those lumps on your head will go down in time. Trust me I know.

I've seen the same tutorial you used, and it worked well for me. I would suggest some base colors with more contrast to one another, and/or a non-metallic over wrap. Also, researching what a moire pattern is and how the effect is created is not only insightful, but will allow for some foresight into what you wish to accomplish. A moire, in essence, is two sets of parallel lines on top of one another, one set being inclined a few degrees from the other. (hence the opposite direction of the overwrap) Plus, the burnishing of the loosely wrapped underwrap enhances the tiger style pattern of the wrap.

Do some smaller test wraps on an old rod, wooden dowel or your grandpa's cane and find some color combinations that you are happy with and go for it. And order back issues before they all gone because then you have to buy the CD!

-my 2c

I followed the directions in the magazine and was moderately successful first time out. I used ncp white and black as a base then metallic red for the top. It worked well. I've seen videos and read about the three thread tigers but have yet to try it. Stick to the designs in the rodmaker mag and they will not fail you.!

Well, I managed to get off the top layer of red. It left a rough layer of flexcoat, so I applied another layer of highbuild. After it dries I will try and smooth it out if it is not smooth, and apply another coat. my next question is about salvaging this rod. I made a cork grip for it that is beyond nice and has already been glued on so i need to make this blank work.
Can I use a color for the top layer that was not used in the base layer? Since I used metallic red, copper, and gold for the base, what would be a good color for the top layer? OR should I just leave it as a three thread base wrap and move on.

Tom,
I am trying to select which mags to back order and have not decided on which ones yet. I will try and get the order in soon. Every issue has its purpose, but I am limited on how much I can spend on back issues and subscriptions. If anyone has input on must have back issues let me know soon so I can make sure I get them. Oh and I will be adding your book to the order.
Thanks

Rodbuilding, cheaper than therapy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 06:06PM by John Barbee.

The one thing that fooled me in my initial tigers after reading the RB article was what was meant by heavily / aggresively burnishing the bottom layer.
Now, prior to tigers, burnishing a wrap meant flattening the threads to take up any gaps and smooth the binding. So thats what I did.
The pattern results after the reverse direction top wrap, while there, were subdued and the 'eyes' were much larger than any of the published articles.
What I realised later was that 'aggressive' burnishing of the bottom layer did not mean burnishing in the tradidional sense. It meant disturbing the threads in the bottom layer so that the threads were not nice parallel spirals like a guide wrap, but induced a wavy path in the spiral .
ie
push the threads towards the tip a bit ...............then rotate the rod say 60 Deg or so and push the threads towards the butt a bit........... repeat all the way round the rod.
ie
what on a guide wrap would look a nightmare.

Mongrel language our English there's lead and there's lead ( as in metal and dog lead ) now we have burnishing & " burnishing"..

Sure, once you realise the context of "burnishing" the bottom layer of a tiger wrap it all comes together, as does the bit about burnishing one way & then the other on the bottom layer.
But Heck, I've always burnished wraps on guides etc in both directions, and with the tool at different angles...................so the description in the tiger article did not have any significance to me beyond my normal technique and the word 'burnishing' in the historical & traditional sense of burnishing a wrap.
The use of a better descriptor in the article would have helped.
An image of the bottom layer, close up, highlighting in text what was meant by the aggressive "burnishing" would have helped as this is a key part of creating the patterns......................but every image of the bottom layer in both RB articles looked mighty straight & normal to me.

We live & learn..................context is EVERYTHING in the english language.

Denis,

You'll notice that Bill Colby spelled it out pretty well in the article - he said that you could even use strong pressure from a thumb or finger to disturb the wraps and move the thread in different directions. We didn't leave it just at "burnishing," we spelled out what you had to do and why it was important.

....................