What advantages dose rollor guides have over ceramics like sic or zerconian guides for stand up and trolling rods ? I've had bad experiance in the past with rollor guides and only build rods with hard ceramics. I'm I missing out on something?

You need to give us a little more info, what size stand up, what was your bad experience.

I'm building stand ups right now, any thing in the 10# up to 50# you can use regular boat guides unless you are using wire or wind on leaders, they will take out the rings and damage the frames.

Any thing over 50# (sometimes you can get by with boat guides on 80#) I would suggest rollers.

If you have any other questions just email me will be happy to answer your questions.

Like Tim said on the line weight AND more info...

Most of our "locals" building heavy rods are building them for Tuna. 50lb test is nornally as heavy as the majority go on ring guides. 60lbs & up are mostly roller. We still have PLENTY of customers that build XH & XXH blanks with Turbo and even "HB" style ring guides. Going back to the "more info" thing, it really depends on what the rods will be used for.

Big Tuna making LONG blistering runs pulling drag will build a lot of heat on the guides. Enough heat to damage mono, especially after a fish makes a long run then stops, parking your mono (under 30lbs of drag) across what amounts to a bunch of hot wires. Not a good thing. You've probably seen guys dumping water on the guides if you've seen and of the "Big Game" fishing shows on TV. It ain't cuz they're thristy...

To the same point, I once watched a guy lose 3-4 rings off of a "wally world" rod after hooking up two 50lb class Dorado. Both fish pulled lots of line and after breaking off the second one, the guy noticed that he had rings just hanging off his line between the frames. They were cheap, un-flanged frames and my best guess was that the heat broke down the adhesive holding the rings in. Wouldn't be an issue with a quality flanged guide, but it illustrates the kind of heat that can be generated.

Mark Griffin
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C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

as a baseline a PROPERLY maintained roller guide will offer more line protection than any ring guide on the market...BUT if you dont maintain them, your stuffed...they do add alot more weight, but they do look a lot sexier...they do alter the action of the blank a lot more than a ring guide does due to the length / distance between the feet. this is more an issueon lghter line class rods using rollers...i have clients that fish ultra light game and will ONLY use rollers and maintain them as ANY amont on seriouse heat build up on 'cob web' lines can be detrimental...

so pros and cons...as Tim and Mark have said...MORE INFO...

Cheers Perrie

HOTRODS - Perrie Thomas Custom Rods
[www.perrieshotrods.com]

Out of curiosity, how would SiC stand up to say 3-500 yards of 50-80# mono running through it at 20mph. If anyone knows how fast it builds up heat I would like to know as well.

The reason I would like to know is because I have a SiC insert that I have been trying to break down, and can hold a dremel grinding bit up to it at 20,000 rpm for a few minutes while holding it in my hand before it even seems to get warm.

i think from memory i was read somewhere years ago that the FUJI sic ring can take constant line runnning @ 70 KPH before any decernable or possiblk line damaging heat build up occurred..

HOTRODS - Perrie Thomas Custom Rods
[www.perrieshotrods.com]

Thank you for that information. That would be approximately equivalent to 45mph. IMO Very few fish at 20+ pounds of drag even have the ability to do that.

big BIG tuna with a real bad case of 'i dont wanna be hooked !

HOTRODS - Perrie Thomas Custom Rods
[www.perrieshotrods.com]

Thanks for the info , You guys have been a big help. I failed to consider heat build up on line guides. My bad experiance with rollors guides were many years ago before I became a rod builder and tackle junkie. In hind sight , those rollor guides were on factory produced rods . The rollors were jamed up and had grooves cut in them. Could have been cheap rollor guides , no maintance or both. The rods I build are not for Big tuna but for smaller gamefish like king mackerel , cobia, and amber jack.. I spiral wrap my guides and use sic or zerconia guids. Some day I would like to test my rods on yellow or bluefin tuna.

Joseph

Cobia/Kings/and AJs is about the exact fishery we have here off East Central Florida aside from the bottom dwellers. SiC and Zirconia hold up rather well to these fish. If you put 20+ lbs of drag on a king, you rip his mouth off. And they simply cannot run fast enough to build up enough heat do do any damage on those guides. Rollers surely cannot hurt however.

On something like big tuna, or most bigger and powerful billfish, it is the exact opposite. You would want roller guides as these fish take off and run, and run and run.......and they arent too happy about stopping either. Now only if I could actually CATCH a marlin; hooked quite a few on highly inferior tackle to handle them.