Thanks to all that answered on my previous post on Gene Bullard's article but as usual an answer usually generates another question. I realize if for example, if I was to cast strictly 3/8 oz lures, my best bet is to find a blank suited for that weight. And would I be correct in thinking a blank that's in the 1/8 - 3/8 rating range would better than one in the 3/8 - 3/4 range?

But what about the reel? I have a Daiwa Luna that simply smokes and an Abu Garcia Tournament reel that is very nice but it doesn't cast as far (at half the price). The line winder on the Luna disengages when the line goes out but on the Abu Garcia, it traverses back and forth when line goes out. This adds more drag than on the Daiwa and is part of the reason it doesn't casts as far. So I think I can have a perfect blank setup with a less than stellar reel that could get outcasted by a lesser blank setup but with a super reel. I realize they are both important but which one is MOST important? Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2008 03:41PM by Tim Collins.

In my opinion/experience you would be much better off casting a 3/8oz lure with a blank rated to throw 1/4-3/4oz.

-Mike

Much more to it than just casting. What fish are you going to use the rod on? What size line? And are you trying for maximun distance (I assume not with a 3/8 ounce weight). If you are fishing for bass for example then most bait casters will allow you to cast far enough to catch fish with either end of the weight rating but depending on where and how you are fishing the rod requiremants could be very different.

I believe like with a fly rod you need to pick a blank that will full load with the wt of the lure you are casting so that when the rod is traveling forward it unloads to add to the tip velocity you are moving it. Also if you want the best then get a correct blank as well as a good reel.

"What fish are you going to use the rod on? What size line? And are you trying for maximun distance (I assume not with a 3/8 ounce weight)."

Bill - I assume we're talking bass rods here - yes we're looking for maximum casting distance with 3/8 oz (use a gunfish 95 for example). I'm casting to schooling bass in clear (greater then 8' clarity) water and you get close, they are gone. Even casting a solid clear lure.

I achieve my greatest distance with a Xfast action, med power rod, braided line, and a super tuned shimano. I promise you can throw that 3/8 further than many people can imagine.

Interesting point... I swtiched over to braid on a different rod this weekend, and I probably gained 10'+ in casting distance from what I previously casted (double fluke rig). The whole package plays into it, although the rod has in my mind, the biggest impact.

Here are my thoughts (no scientific backing disclaimer - so feel free to debunk):
Line - smaller diameter line has less wind resistance allowing a longer cast. (Here's where braid helped me this weekend because you can have a 20# test braid with the diameter of 6# mono.
Lure - today's bass lures really aid casting distance. The gunfish for example has a shifting weight that moves into the rear of the lure that is cone shaped - more inertia (is that right?) with it nose heavy and the conical shaped end helps slice through the air - think missle
Reel - the least amount of resistance is going to let the line free spool faster, sometimes even faster than the lure can pull the line through the guide (Backlash - ARGH!), although proper casting can prevent that and keep them in sync. What I find is the higher grade reels have smoother bearings, brakes and cast control. Supertuning a reel makes dramatic differences in the performance of any reel though (better bearings, polished surfaces, etc) - both casting and reeling in the big one.

So to your question Tim - the same rod with a better reel, I think you'll always out perform because it's a better "package"

I think most people most of the time are outcasting their hooksetting ability. Situations like Alex is describing make casting greater than "normal" distances necessary. In those sutuations, as he stated, braided line can help achieve those distances as well as make it possible to get ahook in a fish because braid has virtually no stretch. A longer rod will also assist in achieving both.

Tim - match the blank to the technique. Match the quality of the reel to your wallet. The best baitcasting reels (along with an educated thumb) will have more impact on casting distance than the best blanks (and any guide set up you may select). The danger you face is trying to select the best blank for a weight (say 3/8 oz.) the difference between 3/8 oz lures (cranks, jigs/worms, spoons, blades, etc. ) is huge. For example - you mentioned - 1/8 -3/8 rating as better - it would be, for 3/8 oz cranks (small, easy penetrating hooks) - but for 3/8 oz jigs (with 5/0 hooks) the 3/8-3/4 would be much better. As you can see - sometimes simple questions can lead to complex answers - darn. Baitcasting outfits are a compromise - they must cast efficiently, manipulate the lure, feel the bite, set the hook, fight the fish, land the fish and make us look good while doing all the above (just kidding a little here). The best outfit for casting is usually poor for setting the hook - the best for setting the hook is usually poor for fighting the fish - the best for feeling the bite - well - you get the idea. What to do? Compromise. Give up a little here to gain a little there. You decide which areas are more important for you or your customers needs.

Thanks Richard, what you say really makes sense. Actually I'm using my baitcasting reel for Salmon/Steelhead fishing with a spawn bag/fly/egg pattern on a sort of chuck n' duck with
some pencil lead and everything totals 1/4 to 3/8 oz depending on how much weight I need based on how swift the current is. I'm not a purist - I just like to catch fish. And I like to stay put instead of chasing the fish halfway downstream in order to land it with an ultralight.

I used to fly fish for Salmon/Steelhead but I found out it was easier to use (and to teach my wife and brother) a spinning rod. It was easier to cast but I couldn't always hit the exact spot I wanted to. Here in the Great Lakes area, spinning rods are the norm (especially for the snaggers). But people in the west kept talking about casting rods so I thought I'd give it a try. After using a baitcasting reel on a revolver wrapped Batson last fall, why would you want to fish any other way? Actually I can cast this setup further than I really need to, but what I like about it is I can stop my offereing the exact distance/spot that I want. So I'm not really looking for distance as much as I want to cast a bit lighter setup - 1/4oz on occasions - at a reasonable distance. My setup resembles the small, easy pentrating type offering so I think I understand what you're saying. I have the reel - I just might need to get a bit lighter blank for those lighter setups near the 1/4 oz range. Thanks again.

The value of "match the blank to the technique" stated above is a critical item. Many will equate casting distance to blank loading. There are many fishing techniques used that require other considerations. In the case of pitching of light finesse lures, for close in work, to hook and retreive large bass from heavy cover an angler skilled in the art of pitching may use a stiff and heavy action blank where the lure will not "load" the blank. In this case the skill of the angler and the reel determines the range while the lure presentation, hook set and fish recovery are blank controlled. In the boat on the same day the same skilled angler may have drop shot, shaky head, work, spinner bait, crank bait, frog and jerk bait and even a swim bait in the boat. One set of conditions will not answer the specifics in all cases.

Tim,
I've got an old Abu that I use to do the test casting on my baitcasting rods. I recently built a rod that just didn't seem to do what I thought it should so I looked at the reel. I decided to tear it down and do some upgrades. I found that I could upgrade the bearings in ABEC standard, used a modern lubricant sparingly, upgraded the levelwind by adding some bearings and changed out the pawl to a ceramic pawl. Cost me about 30 bucks but made a very noticeable difference in casting distance. I also had an Abu 4600 C4 that was always very tight. I upgraded it and now can chunk a floating worm like a rocket launcher!!! Matter of fact, I've begun to upgrade all my ABUs and Shimanos.
My point is, I think the reel has just as much affect on casting distance as the rod. I agree with others that say most rod and reels cast beyond the real working range but, in your situation, it sounds like you need some distance. If you've done everything you can to make that rod as effective as possible, and you're working in that lure range, look at upgrading the parts in that reel. It might work for you too. It's not too expensive and it's another learning experience. If nothing else you'll get a renewed sense of how important it is to build your rods with a certain reel in mind or, better yet, have that reel on hand when you're building the rod so you can fine tune it. Check out [www.mikesreelrepair.com] or [heartlandtackleservice.com] and you'll see some of the different options for upgrading many reels.

Tim,
Which Batson blank are you using?

light weights, X-fast taper blanks, & a high inertia spool make for a difficult combination.
the lighter the weight gets the more important the reel .............. more its the interia of the spool thats the most important. ABEC bearings & magnesium alloy spools with lower spool weight are the key elements with a well engineered level wind not far behind.
The rod delivers the energy from the cast to the lure/bait and that drags the line off the spool to get it rotating
The bit that has the most effect on casting performance and controllability is the milliseconds after the thumb comes off the spool............. with lighter weights a slower tapered blank delivers a more controlled accelleration of the spool as the inertia of the spool is overcome during the accelleration phase.
Once you have the spool up to full speed the lure is decellerating from air resistance and Drag a lot faster than the spool is decellerating & your educated thumb &/or whizzbanger spool brake is on its own.
If you are looking at 1/4 - 3/8 oz weights the "class" of your blank is probably on the money . If you are looking to optimise your lightweight casting a blank with a med-fast taper ( 'action' )is probably as fast a taper as you want to go unless your casting skills are top drawer. A med - fast action blank still gives you a decent bit of power in the butt when everything comes together & there are some scales & fins on the end & the line is coming back onto the spool.
Smaller sized reels with lightweight spools minimise the inertia issues.
I have a dear friend who casts 1/8 oz celtas off an old ABU RECORD ( Magnesium spool & no levelwind ) with a longish moderate taper rod, an outrageous distance.
A skill I have been unable to master.............. despite building the rod for him.
I'm a wimp.............. when it comes to those weights , you find a spinning reel in my hands.
The easy option............... but it never feels as nice as with a casting outfit.
DenisB

Spencer, my revolver wrap is a 10 1/2' Batson XST1263 (3/8 - 3/4) and it is a solid fish fighter and cast well enough with the Daiwa Luna reel as long as I have enough lure weight. I made a modified simple spiral on a 7 1/2' Batson IP903F (1/4 - 5/8) and with the same reel, I can hit fisherman on the bank of other side of the Big Manistee here in Michigan with it. I made this rod for spring Steelhead for a couple narrow and shallow streams where a longer rod wouldn't work out very well, but it is so much fun to cast I have trouble putting it down.

If I decide to build another shorter and lighter rod, I'll probably look at the IST993F. Thanks.

Rod and reel work together for casting distance . I'd give a little more credit to the reel for casting distance . I think surf casting distance records are set by bait casters without level winds.
Weather a level wind moves or not , it will put drag on the line. My 8 bearing modified Abu Record reel with its non disengaging level line is more than a match for my Shimano Curado with it's disengaging level wind.