I have a few questions regarding these wraps. The first one is the simple one. Can you use permagloss as the finish between wraps. The second one is has anyone experimented with more than a 2 color base wrap or 2 layer wrap? I will give examples of what I mean using letters to correspond to colors and numbers correspond to pullout thread.

Example # 1

Base wrap A,B,C,A,B,C,A,B,C
Top wrap D,1,D,1,D,1,D,1,D,1

Example # 2

Base wrap A,A,B,B,A,A,B,B,A,A,B,B
Second wrap C,1,D,2,C,1,D,2,C,1,D,2
Top wrap E,1,E,1,E,1,E,1,E,1,E,1,E,1,

Example # 3

Base Wrap A,B,A,B,A,B,A,B,A,B,
Second wrap C,1,C,1,C,1,C,1,C,1,
Top Wrap D,1,D,1,D,1,D,1,D,1,D,1

I may be wrong in thinking that with more colors and layers you might get more of a halo wrap. I am still new to rod building so I thought I would see if anyone has tried this. If you have would you care to share your results and findings. These where just a few examples but I can think of more. Any input would be great.

Mike P.

i thought about example one and was gonna try it out soon infact

Not clear on the second one, but here's my take.

#1: 3 colour base wrap, single colour top layer (1 is the sacrifice thread). Pretty sure there are some pics of wraps done this way on the photo board.

#3: 2 colour base wrap, single colour second layer (1 is sacrifice thread), single colour third layer (again, 1 is sacrifice thread). My question to this one is whether the 3rd layer is necessary. The top thread determines the overall colour of the wrap. Not sure what effect you would get with the bottom layer having to come through 2 layers, especially if the colours are very different.

#2: Well, what to say. 2 colour base wrap, 4 colour second layer (which ones here are sacrificed?), single colour second layer. If thread #2 of the numbered threads in the second layer is sacrificial, then you would get a wider spiral of 3 colours. Removing #1 gives a single colour spiral spaced from a double colour spiral. Obviously if 3 threads are removed then you get a longer single colour spiral.

If no threads are removed from the second layers then you would defeat the purpose of putting the contrasting threads in the base layer. I would say keep it simple and do a couple of the 2 layer wraps to get an idea of how they'll turn out before you start adding more thread on top of it. The way I see it, any subsequent layers after the base wrap would need to have a sacrificial thread in order for the contrast of the base threads to show through.

I've experimented with a bunch of combinations and found that I get better results if the wraps are in even numbers; ie Base: A, B, C, D & top E, F or E, F, G, H with E & G or F & H being the sacrifical threads. The effect of doubling the wraps in the base increases the angle of the threads that show through the gaps in the top layer and the pattern gets compressed along the long axis. Doubling the top wraps increases the angle as compared to the bottom wraps and has the same effect. Doubling both compresses the pattern enough to lose a lot of the effect. I think the only advantage to doubling is that you use something like a base of black, MTsilver, black, MTgold, and a top wrap of X & black (or whatever) which would result in a black overall with short highlights of both silver and gold. You can double both the top and bottom with a base of black, MTsilver, black, MTsilver, and a top of X, black, X, black and the effect would be a black overall with silver speckles that move around as you angle the rod.

I haven't tried "Shape Moire" effects yet but they could have a real neat effect on a rod: [en.wikipedia.org]

I've not tried permagloss between layers. Not sure it would work very well as, my understanding, you need some depth.....thickness.....that permagloss will not give. Thicker rod finishes give you that depth to your wrap so the effects come through.

There has been quite a bit posted about using morew than 2 threads per wrap. The Photo page has numerous pics of the type wraps that you are asking about. Simply put, just about any combo will work. As for PG, I don't think that you would get enough buildup. The heavier the build up between the layers the more enhanced the effect is. Some use several coats of high build between layers.
Get a scrap blank or piece of dowel/PVC, paint it and experiment with a few different combo's and post the results.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I have done quite a bit on the multiple thread issue and found several good results. I often use 3 different color threads on the under wrap and then I use 3 threads on the over wrap but sacrifice 2. Same with 4 threads but sacrifice 3. When I used one sacrificial thread with my first example I ended up more stripey(good word eh) but I prefer the abhorant circles and Island looing appearance. Havent tried the third layer idea yet but it is on my to do list.. Presently all booked up with shows but also working on Bill Stevens (actually his friend) idea with a plastic tuben and dowling to show different combos. Too much to do and not enough time.

As to the permagloss idea, I am not sure. I have found that 3 or more coats of epoxy finish(I use mostly Flex Coat High) on the underwrap really helps make the Moire effect more dramatic. I would think you would have to use a lot of it and if I am not mistaken Permagloss isnt quite as shiney as the epoxy types. Bit as I said I am not sure. As I always way, experiment and please report your findings.

I'm not sure about the different patterns that you've mentioned. All I've done to date is two in the base and two minus one on top.

I generally start with a coat of PG just to lock everything in place, IF I'm not using CP. Then i go to a two part, that a higher build. using PG all the way is going to be a long and tedious process.

Like Doc said, the dowel and clear plastic tube will make short work of a lot of experimentation

PermaGloss is actually much shinier than any epoxy, but it's also thin and would take many, many coats to build up enough depth to highlight the effect.

It also has a "faceted" appearance which could exaggerate the effect, maybe. You'd still need perhaps 10 to 15 coats of it however.

............

Not to jump in and hijack your thread but the thougth I was toying with that has some potential as well is to use a two thread base on a standard grey graphite and sacrifice one thread leaving a light colored thread behind - I am thinking it could produce the necesary contrast and may produce some additional depth. I also cosidered that a light layer of epoxy beneath the base layer might then be necesarry to heat and hold the remining thread in place... as somebody already metnioned - many possibilities here - just need the time to check them out! Any thougths from the gallery would be grand! Thanks, Chuck Ungs