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Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Anonymous User
(Moderator)
Date: January 10, 2008 11:58AM
I just got an email from a concered person about the urethane used in molding grip cores. I've left off his name and am not doing this in order to give anyone a hard time (he emailed me out of a genuine concern for everyones' safety), but to remind everyone that common sense will never be obsolete.
............. Tom Not to be an alarmist or fearmonger, but do a Google search on Urethane. It states " Urethane is reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen based on...NTP technical report on toxicity studies of urethane in drinking water..." I know that people using it to mold rod handles won't drink it, but you never know. Are we talking about the same stuff. I haven't seen the article yet, but did it include warnings not to do so? FRom experience, warning labels on the container don't always work. Please advise. Thanks xxxxxxxxxxxx My reply: xxxxxxxxxxxx, If you own a car you're sitting on top of a urethane foam seat. If you use Flex Coat arbors you're handling urethane. If you have a boat, it's filled with urethane foam flotation. And on and on and on. It's all around us and you're already coming into contact with it on a daily basis. Hopefully you won't contract cancer from all the exposure you're having to it, but I suppose that's just one of the risks we take in life. I won't downplay warnings and real dangers, but sometimes you have to weigh the intent with the likely outcome. None of these chemicals are good for us, but many of the warnings you see on the labels are somewhat overblown for legal reasons. Generally, limited exposure and proper use reduces any risk to a bare minimum. Again, I won't write it off as nonsense, but I'm not afraid of urethane foam anymore than I am of a lightning strike on my head - reasonable precautions will usually make the likelyhood of either pretty rare. Certainly possible, but extremely rare. I'm not going to put in a warning about not drinking it, because anyone that stupid isn't likely to be able to read such a warning in the first place. We always advise certain cautions in articles on things that might not be obvious to persons of even reasonable intelligence, but at some point we can't cover every conceivable use or misuse of a product or technique and have to rely on the reader/user having at least some modicum of intelligence. A person who would take a swig of this stuff is simply beyond my ability to help or instruct. Tom Kirkman RodMaker Magazine .................. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2008 12:01PM by Tom Kirkman. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Steve Gardner
(---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: January 10, 2008 12:14PM
The reason preparation H says:
Do not take internally is because someone wrote them and said Dear Sirs; I have eaten the whole tube and it has yet to work That person never read the instructions or warnings either. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Bill Lane
(165.24.249.---)
Date: January 10, 2008 01:08PM
Imagine there was only one manufacturer of rod blanks who could produce enough blanks to feed the whole rod building industry. Then imagine that one day he (or she) just destroyed all his tools and equipment and closed shop. That is exactly what happened in the surfboard industry two years ago.
"Grubby" Clark, the owner of Clark Foam, The major manufacturer of surfboard blanks for most of the world, destroyed all of his moulds and shut down his whole operation without warning. It threw the whole board building industry into a loop that is still being sorted out! The reasons? He was being sued by environmental agencies, employees, ex employees, etc. for health risks and problems stemming from "blowing" foam blanks. This guy just wanted to make blanks. He got fed up and punted. There may have been more to the story, but that was it in a nut shell. I can't see any CUSTOM builders being exposed to the levels these guys were (blowing thousands of blanks at several cubic feet of foam each per day), but too much of even a good thing can be bad for you. I think I will approach this like everything else in life. Take reasonable precautions. (gloves and ventilation), and proceed in moderation (as if my demand for rod handles would require any more than a few per year). Of course since everything gives you cancer or has some other remote danger. I could just seal myself into a sterile room and never leave the house. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Paul Rotkis
(---.gci.net)
Date: January 10, 2008 02:13PM
BIll hit the nail on the head.
Take reasonable precautions! What are they? Wear gloves and ventilate! Since the specific gravity is 3.07 and air is 1, wear a dust mask that is compatible with urethane when sweeping up the dust particles. And again, ventilate-ventilate-ventilate!!! Paul Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Fred Yarmolowicz
(---.georgewall.com)
Date: January 10, 2008 03:09PM
Also dont use it in California!! Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte) Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Doug Moore
(---.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 10, 2008 03:43PM
Don't bath in it. Don't eat it. Don't burn it and don't give it to your pet rats! Regards......Doug@ TCRds MSDS for Urethane Foam Blocks
Posted by:
Andy Dear
(---.sub-70-197-11.myvzw.com)
Date: January 10, 2008 04:59PM
Material Safety Data Sheet
HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS None FORM Cellular Solid WATER SOLUBILITY Not soluble SPECIFIC GRAVITY .10 to .60 VAPOR PRESSURE Not applicable FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA FLASH POINT >600°F, similar to Cleveland Open Cup. This material is flame resistant and self-extinguishing; however, it will burn in the presence of sufficient heat and oxygen. EXTINGUISHING MEDIA Dry chemical, carbon dioxide, foam, or water spray SPECIAL PROCEDURES During a fire: carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other polymer fragments that may be highly toxic and/or irritating may be present. Self-contained breathing apparatus and full protective gear should be used. Polyurethane foam dust, like most dusts, can present an explosion risk. However, a dust collection system necessary for a suitable work environment is more than adequate to eliminate this risk. Lamar Fishing Products has used a dust collection system and over many years of experience in cutting, planing, shaping, routing and sanding polyurethane foam has never experienced any fire or explosion hazards. REACTIVITY DATA INCOMPATIBLE MATERIALS This product is stable. No known incompatibilities. HEALTH HAZARDS INGESTION Urethane foams are considered non-toxic on ingestion EYE CONTACT Dust from cutting, machining may irritate the eyes SKIN CONTACT See the following section. INHALATION: Polyurethane foams are chemically inert. Foam dust is generated in many operations and a dust collection system is normally used for a suitable work environment. Studies published by Upjohn in the Technical Bulletin No. 107 show no sensitization on skin contact with rigid polyurethane foam dust, and the many years of experience in cutting, planing shaping, routing, and sanding rigid polyurethane foams at Lamar Fishing products is in agreement with these studies. The studies by Upjohn show no inhalation problems which are peculiar to polyurethane foam dust. Normal protective equipment, such as gloves, eye goggles and masks that mechanically filter the dust may be necessary in operations where large amounts of dust are generated. Note: Tests with Sprague-Dawley rats at 8.65mg/cubic meter of polyurethane dust show no carcinogenic effects. Medical conditions that may be aggravated by exposure include asthma, bronchitis, emphysema, skin allergies, and eczema. The possibility exists that individuals who are very sensitive to isocyanates may also be sensitive to the reacted foam. Should this be the case, those individuals need to be assigned to an area which does not have polyurethane foam. SPILL OR LEAK CLEAN UFIRST AID PROCEDURES SKIN Wash with soap and water. Seek medical attention if redness persists. EYES Immediately flush with plenty of water to remove dust particles. If irritation is severe and/or is not promptly relieved by washing seek medical attention. INGESTION Not applicable. INHALATION Move to fresh air. Polyurethane Foam is an inert foam which may be disposed of in an ordinary landfill. SPECIAL PROTECTION INFORMATION RESPIRATORY The inhaling of foam dust as with any dust should be avoided. A mechanical dust collection system should be used for cutting or machining operations that generate large quantities of dust. Standard dust or particle masks should be used in a dusty solution. SKIN Gloves are not normally necessary. EYE PROTECTION Safety glasses or goggles appropriate to cutting or machining operations being performed should be worn. SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS OR OTHER COMMENTS HANDLING Not applicable. STORAGE Store in a manner to prevent possible combustion similar to that used for combustible solids, like wood. TRANSPORTATION DATA Lamar Polyurethane Foam is not regulated or classified in a manner that requires special handling or precautions in shipment. INFORMATION With respect Canadian regulations for Controlled and Not Controlled Products, Lamar Polyurethane Faom is not a Controlled Product. With respect to the Canadian New Substances Notification Regulation this foam meets the requirements for definition as an article; therefore, Lamar Polyurethane Foam is exempt by the provision for an Article Exemption. This Material Safety Data Sheet prepared by Chem Lab 6/10/05 Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Anonymous User
(Moderator)
Date: January 10, 2008 05:35PM
Reading the above one can see that this is pretty safe stuff all the way around. Just don't drink it and you should be okay.
............... Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Andy Dear
(---.sub-70-197-11.myvzw.com)
Date: January 10, 2008 06:47PM
Note: The above MSDS refers only to pre-fabbed foam blocks we sell here at Lamar....not unmixed unpoured urethane foam in liquid form.
Andy Dear Lamar Fishing Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Kirk_Miller
(---.gci.net)
Date: January 10, 2008 07:06PM
Ya know its thinking like this that made them print "Do not eat" on that little mystery material package at the bottom of my favorite Jerky bag, and thank god they did.......lol I am too busy to wonder if I should be ingesting forieghn objects. There is enough good stuff to eat and drink out there that I don't ever worry about the temptation of foam. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Steve Gardner
(---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: January 10, 2008 08:28PM
Some info from the manufacturer’s sight on the liquid urethane, from the frequently asked questions page.
4. Is there a hazardous fee for shipping? No. These liquids are not considered hazardous and can ship via UPS Ground or Air shipping methods. 5. What will I need to use the foam? You will need containers to measure and mix the foam and stir sticks to mix the two parts together. Gloves and eye protection are strongly recommended. This product will out gas carbon dioxide when expanding so for safety you should always work outdoors or in a well ventilated area. You can use a solvent such as acetone, denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to clean up when the product is still liquid, however urethane foams will stick to virtually everything except slick plastics so you should cover-up anything you do not want the foam to damage. If I get time tomorrow I will call and request Material Safety Data info on the liquid form and post it. Maybe then we can put and end to peoples unwarranted fears. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Steve Rushing
(---.north-highland.com)
Date: January 11, 2008 12:12PM
This thread reminded my of this year's winner of the "Wacky Warning Label Contest": A label on a small tractor that warns, "Danger: Avoid Death" . Sage advise and something I try to stick to on a daily basis, especially in my shop :)
Second place is something we should all be aware of as well: an iron-on T-shirt transfer that warns: "Do not iron while wearing shirt." And, one that this crowd should always keep front of mind: A brass fishing lure with a three-pronged hook on the end warns: “Harmful if swallowed" If you need a condensed version of all the things that you need to be aware of in keeping life safe: [www.mlaw.org] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2008 12:14PM by Steve Rushing. Re: Calculated Risk
Posted by:
Charles Clayton
(58.172.155.---)
Date: January 12, 2008 01:10AM
I don’t believe there is much of a health issue, my employer orders by the 44gallon drum and we don’t even bother to use mask. The main issue is isocyanates causing adult onset asthma which is a particular problem with two pak paint, their present in much lower amounts in powdercoat and even less in foam.. As asthma sufferer myself I’m very careful about possible triggers but have never noticed any reaction to the fumes.
"You can use a solvent such as acetone, denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to clean up when the product is still liquid, however urethane foams will stick to virtually everything except slick plastics so you should cover-up anything you do not want the foam to damage. " The name escapes me however you foam supplier should have a spray can of solvent, removes foam and not much else. Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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