I just got an email from a concered person about the urethane used in molding grip cores. I've left off his name and am not doing this in order to give anyone a hard time (he emailed me out of a genuine concern for everyones' safety), but to remind everyone that common sense will never be obsolete.


.............

Tom

Not to be an alarmist or fearmonger, but do a Google search on Urethane.

It states " Urethane is reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen based on...NTP technical report on toxicity studies of urethane in drinking water..."

I know that people using it to mold rod handles won't drink it, but you never know.

Are we talking about the same stuff.

I haven't seen the article yet, but did it include warnings not to do so?

FRom experience, warning labels on the container don't always work.

Please advise.

Thanks

xxxxxxxxxxxx


My reply:

xxxxxxxxxxxx,

If you own a car you're sitting on top of a urethane foam seat. If you use Flex Coat arbors you're handling urethane. If you have a boat, it's filled with urethane foam flotation. And on and on and on. It's all around us and you're already coming into contact with it on a daily basis.

Hopefully you won't contract cancer from all the exposure you're having to it, but I suppose that's just one of the risks we take in life. I won't downplay warnings and real dangers, but sometimes you have to weigh the intent with the likely outcome. None of these chemicals are good for us, but many of the warnings you see on the labels are somewhat overblown for legal reasons. Generally, limited exposure and proper use reduces any risk to a bare minimum. Again, I won't write it off as nonsense, but I'm not afraid of urethane foam anymore than I am of a lightning strike on my head - reasonable precautions will usually make the likelyhood of either pretty rare. Certainly possible, but extremely rare.

I'm not going to put in a warning about not drinking it, because anyone that stupid isn't likely to be able to read such a warning in the first place. We always advise certain cautions in articles on things that might not be obvious to persons of even reasonable intelligence, but at some point we can't cover every conceivable use or misuse of a product or technique and have to rely on the reader/user having at least some modicum of intelligence. A person who would take a swig of this stuff is simply beyond my ability to help or instruct.

Tom Kirkman
RodMaker Magazine


..................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2008 12:01PM by Tom Kirkman.

The reason preparation H says:

Do not take internally is because someone wrote them and said
Dear Sirs;
I have eaten the whole tube and it has yet to work

That person never read the instructions or warnings either.

Imagine there was only one manufacturer of rod blanks who could produce enough blanks to feed the whole rod building industry. Then imagine that one day he (or she) just destroyed all his tools and equipment and closed shop. That is exactly what happened in the surfboard industry two years ago.

"Grubby" Clark, the owner of Clark Foam, The major manufacturer of surfboard blanks for most of the world, destroyed all of his moulds and shut down his whole operation without warning. It threw the whole board building industry into a loop that is still being sorted out! The reasons? He was being sued by environmental agencies, employees, ex employees, etc. for health risks and problems stemming from "blowing" foam blanks. This guy just wanted to make blanks. He got fed up and punted. There may have been more to the story, but that was it in a nut shell.

I can't see any CUSTOM builders being exposed to the levels these guys were (blowing thousands of blanks at several cubic feet of foam each per day), but too much of even a good thing can be bad for you.

I think I will approach this like everything else in life. Take reasonable precautions. (gloves and ventilation), and proceed in moderation (as if my demand for rod handles would require any more than a few per year). Of course since everything gives you cancer or has some other remote danger. I could just seal myself into a sterile room and never leave the house.

BIll hit the nail on the head.

Take reasonable precautions! What are they? Wear gloves and ventilate! Since the specific gravity is 3.07 and air is 1, wear a dust mask that is compatible with urethane when sweeping up the dust particles. And again, ventilate-ventilate-ventilate!!!

Paul

Also dont use it in California!!

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Don't bath in it. Don't eat it. Don't burn it and don't give it to your pet rats!

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

Material Safety Data Sheet

HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS None
FORM Cellular Solid
WATER SOLUBILITY Not soluble
SPECIFIC GRAVITY .10 to .60
VAPOR PRESSURE Not applicable
FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA
FLASH POINT >600°F, similar to Cleveland Open Cup. This material is
flame resistant and self-extinguishing; however, it will burn
in the presence of sufficient heat and oxygen.
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA Dry chemical, carbon dioxide, foam, or water spray
SPECIAL PROCEDURES During a fire: carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other
polymer fragments that may be highly toxic and/or irritating
may be present. Self-contained breathing apparatus and
full protective gear should be used.
Polyurethane foam dust, like most dusts, can present an explosion risk. However, a dust collection system necessary for a suitable work environment is more than adequate to eliminate this risk.
Lamar Fishing Products has used a dust collection system and over many
years of experience in cutting, planing, shaping, routing and sanding
polyurethane foam has never experienced any fire or explosion hazards.
REACTIVITY DATA
INCOMPATIBLE MATERIALS This product is stable. No known incompatibilities.
HEALTH HAZARDS
INGESTION Urethane foams are considered non-toxic on ingestion
EYE CONTACT Dust from cutting, machining may irritate the eyes
SKIN CONTACT See the following section.
INHALATION: Polyurethane foams are chemically inert.
Foam dust is generated in many operations and a dust
collection system is normally used for a suitable work
environment. Studies published by Upjohn in the
Technical Bulletin No. 107 show no sensitization on skin
contact with rigid polyurethane foam dust, and the many
years of experience in cutting, planing shaping, routing,
and sanding rigid polyurethane foams at Lamar Fishing products
is in agreement with these studies.
The studies by Upjohn show no inhalation problems
which are peculiar to polyurethane foam dust. Normal
protective equipment, such as gloves, eye goggles and
masks that mechanically filter the dust may be necessary in
operations where large amounts of dust are generated.
Note: Tests with Sprague-Dawley rats at 8.65mg/cubic meter of polyurethane dust show no carcinogenic effects.
Medical conditions that may be aggravated by exposure include asthma, bronchitis, emphysema, skin allergies, and eczema.
The possibility exists that individuals who are very sensitive to isocyanates may also be sensitive to the reacted foam. Should this be the case, those individuals need to be assigned to an area which does not have polyurethane foam.
SPILL OR LEAK CLEAN UFIRST AID PROCEDURES
SKIN Wash with soap and water. Seek medical attention if
redness persists.
EYES Immediately flush with plenty of water to remove dust
particles. If irritation is severe and/or is not promptly
relieved by washing seek medical attention.
INGESTION Not applicable.
INHALATION Move to fresh air.

Polyurethane Foam is an inert foam which may be disposed of in an ordinary landfill.
SPECIAL PROTECTION INFORMATION
RESPIRATORY The inhaling of foam dust as with any dust should be
avoided. A mechanical dust collection system should be
used for cutting or machining operations that generate
large quantities of dust. Standard dust or particle masks
should be used in a dusty solution.

SKIN Gloves are not normally necessary.
EYE PROTECTION Safety glasses or goggles appropriate to cutting or
machining operations being performed should be worn.
SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS OR OTHER COMMENTS
HANDLING Not applicable.
STORAGE Store in a manner to prevent possible combustion similar
to that used for combustible solids, like wood.
TRANSPORTATION DATA
Lamar Polyurethane Foam is not regulated or classified in a manner that requires special
handling or precautions in shipment.
INFORMATION
With respect Canadian regulations for Controlled and Not Controlled Products,
Lamar Polyurethane Faom is not a Controlled Product.
With respect to the Canadian New Substances Notification Regulation this foam meets the
requirements for definition as an article; therefore, Lamar Polyurethane Foam is exempt by the
provision for an Article Exemption.
This Material Safety Data Sheet prepared by Chem Lab 6/10/05

Reading the above one can see that this is pretty safe stuff all the way around. Just don't drink it and you should be okay.

...............

Note: The above MSDS refers only to pre-fabbed foam blocks we sell here at Lamar....not unmixed unpoured urethane foam in liquid form.


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing

Ya know its thinking like this that made them print "Do not eat" on that little mystery material package at the bottom of my favorite Jerky bag, and thank god they did.......lol I am too busy to wonder if I should be ingesting forieghn objects. There is enough good stuff to eat and drink out there that I don't ever worry about the temptation of foam.

Some info from the manufacturer’s sight on the liquid urethane, from the frequently asked questions page.

4. Is there a hazardous fee for shipping?
No. These liquids are not considered hazardous and can ship via UPS Ground or Air shipping methods.



5. What will I need to use the foam?
You will need containers to measure and mix the foam and stir sticks to mix the two parts together. Gloves and eye protection are strongly recommended. This product will out gas carbon dioxide when expanding so for safety you should always work outdoors or in a well ventilated area. You can use a solvent such as acetone, denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to clean up when the product is still liquid, however urethane foams will stick to virtually everything except slick plastics so you should cover-up anything you do not want the foam to damage.

If I get time tomorrow I will call and request Material Safety Data info on the liquid form and post it.
Maybe then we can put and end to peoples unwarranted fears.

This thread reminded my of this year's winner of the "Wacky Warning Label Contest": A label on a small tractor that warns, "Danger: Avoid Death" . Sage advise and something I try to stick to on a daily basis, especially in my shop :)

Second place is something we should all be aware of as well: an iron-on T-shirt transfer that warns: "Do not iron while wearing shirt."

And, one that this crowd should always keep front of mind: A brass fishing lure with a three-pronged hook on the end warns: “Harmful if swallowed"

If you need a condensed version of all the things that you need to be aware of in keeping life safe: [www.mlaw.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2008 12:14PM by Steve Rushing.

I don’t believe there is much of a health issue, my employer orders by the 44gallon drum and we don’t even bother to use mask. The main issue is isocyanates causing adult onset asthma which is a particular problem with two pak paint, their present in much lower amounts in powdercoat and even less in foam.. As asthma sufferer myself I’m very careful about possible triggers but have never noticed any reaction to the fumes.


"You can use a solvent such as acetone, denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to clean up when the product is still liquid, however urethane foams will stick to virtually everything except slick plastics so you should cover-up anything you do not want the foam to damage.
"
The name escapes me however you foam supplier should have a spray can of solvent, removes foam and not much else.