Im sure I've asked this before......but when you START a rod for someone or yourself,,is your goal function over art or art over function....I beleive Im absorbed with art over function and should just quit building due to Art..yet my rods are quite functional and then some...it bothers me...then again i never wrap guides on my rods I build for myself,,,,,which makes me an imposter,,,,,now THATS a Follie!!!

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

I triple dog dare you to answer this question.

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

For me, it's mostly form over function. If I have a theme in my head, I try to color coordinate all the components with my wraps. I don't like wrapping the guides, so not much creativity there. Mike, if you don't wrap your guides, who does?

Think before you respond.....whats your ultimate goal or thought process..art or function..........dont lie.

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

My wife.

I swear, that I'm telling the truth.

Im not fibbing,

We build to fill a customer's order, therefore we build what he wants. Mostly, the design starts with the function he's trying to fill. If he wants "pretty stuff" on the rod as well, we'll do that, but it costs him more.

If we are building for ourselves, it's basically the same idea, but we don't pay anything extra :-)

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

When I started way back when it was ALL ART as the only things I understood about performance
and what makes a better rod other than art were spline (spine) and guide selection & placement.

Those 2 things were easy and I just did them. My whole mission in life was to make the fanciest &
prettiest rod I could weather it was a rewrap of an oldie or a new build.

Now, as I know much more about the hows & whys with regards to making the best TOOL I can,
I won't build a rod (especially for someone else) unless I know enough about what it is to be most
used for and can make it work best for that intension. I don't fly fish yet so I don't build fly rods.
However, I find it almost impossible NOT to include some type of artistic embelishments. Ever since
I saw Bill's article on the threadless wraps I have wanted to build a "stealth" rod. All black and nothing
fancy. Simple and elegant. Most everyone knows how long ago that article was! LOL Blank is still on my
wall with grips press fitted and not glued. For some reason which evades me there it still sits.

You wanted a frank answer. There it is!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Good answer Russ...as it should be.

Raymond...so it went from Art to Function for you...where did you learn all this from? I learned all I know from the Clemens books, experience, and THIS web site. For me though, its all about art....is that bad???

All my rods are built function first, decoration second. My personal rods are crash test dummies, I try new components, new ideas, and anything I can think of to make teh rod perform better, and when I get something that works I'll then put it on rods I build for other people. Unfortunately, that has left me with more than a few very expensive tomato stakes which I could not use, but in teh long run, all teh rods I build now are done right, and are a lot more functional than the cookie cutter custom rods everyone seems to build (as far as grip material choice, seat choices, and handle & guide configuration/set ups) for the type of fishing I do.

The Decorative aspect,I take a lot of pride in as well. Why bother making a rod functional, if it doesn't look like a custom rod should look? Problem with that is if the rod breaks you have a lot of time tied up in a rod, the most recent rod I broke took me 29 hours to build. While I'm not happy about my stupidity causing the rod to break, I won't hesitate to spend 30 hours on teh rod I build to replace that one, and fish it just as hard.

PS - MJ has more rods half built than anyone ever. lol.

I learned from the very same sources as you Mike. All the CURRENT knowledge came from
this site though!

If your receiving money for your work and are being paid exclusively for your artistic talents.
Seeing your work tells me that those who pay you are getting more than there monies worth!
Without a doubt!
If performance is in the equation and you pay no mind to it then your doing a paying customer
a disservice. Of course, if your not selling your rods for profit that point is moot. It all depends
on the reasoning behind your builds and what you do with them I guess.

The question of "is that bad?" can only be answered by you I'm affraid.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

> PS - MJ has more rods half built than anyone ever.
> lol.


Billy...I grinded and wrapped 5,000 guides in my life ,,,I got bored,,,what can I say.

Take pride in the ARTS

NERB that types with a bar of Ivory soap in his mouth.

Raymond said that he got CURRENT rodbuilding info from THIS site.....what if this site went away?

I'm with oyu Mike!
I HATE wrapping guides. However, I think that is because I'm not artsy enough at it yet.
I was blown away with the recent photo posts by Scott Throop and how he twisted 2
threads together to make one. It sure didn't look that way. Putting in single inlays and
those little extra tidbits like the twisted thread would take me FOREVER and some of
the stuff I tried didnt look like I had entended either. I guess I just need to sit at the bench
more often even if it's just for practice and training for simple repitition, color selection, and
muscle and memory training.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I started with Function the primary goal but now give a LOT of thought to form. Seeing MJ and the NERB's amazing work has really made me feel inferior and while function is still of primary importance and I'll never come close to you guys on Art, my first thoughts when envisioning a new build is ART/Form (providing it doesn't interfere with the function that is the main purpose of the rod. I do believe Form follows function, I also believe that it is very important (at least to me and the people that use my rods)

I got my info from the old Flexcoat booklet, catalogs and an Artie Hebert video... Then I found this site and it really turned into an addiction!!

MJ, don't even kid about this site going away! I had seroius withdrawal when it just went down for a day. IMO, it would be a real blow to the entire craft!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2007 01:10AM by Mike Barkley.

Michael Joyce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raymond said that he got CURRENT rodbuilding info
> from THIS site.....what if this site went away?

I would miss it like an old friend. That's for sure.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I am with Billy on this....I build to fish and not to look pretty....Of course in my case it is because I am a complete goof when it comes to thread art, but the end result is the same. My personal builds are real Frankensteins for the most part, testing new ideas, paints, threads, color combos, cord wraps....

I learned from a locally famous builder who kinda took me under his wing a bit and taught me the basics of rod building and Penn Reel repair before he retired. I enjoy the thread art and marvel at what many of you can do but I don't really see me getting to fancy ant time soon. My rods are still like kids to me with the time I put into them and if one that I spent days working on failed on me I am afraid it would be me with the bar of soap in my mouth.....FOR SEVERAL DAYS.

Really digging the wood grips lately....I used to do lathe work years ago and miss it.

Happy to build rods that have the aesthetic charm of a used q-tip but WORK for now.


At least I THINK they work....Opinions may vary.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

Everyone would miss it...its free!!!! Regardless alot of creativity and education rips through this site



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2007 01:35AM by Michael Joyce.