This text is a quote from current Tackle Tour Rod Topic directed at Bass Fishermen.

"Introduction: For the most part, the world of bass fishing rods is a tangled web of look-a-like products and outlandish marketing claims. Very few products stand apart from the crowd in terms of appearance or performance, and even fewer distinguish themselves in both arenas. Most anglers pursuing the pinnacle in both appearance and performance seek out the talents of custom builders, but the wait for some of these carefully wrapped masterpieces can be eternal."

I for one like the wording of this product review - I am using it as a basis for real meaningful communication with several tournament fishermen. There are real reasons for them to deal with a custom builder who can produce the rods wanted.

Gon Fishn

Nice thing about tournament guys, at the 'lower' levels they are VERY receptive to using, and PAYING for, custom built rods.

Lots of them never make to the 'big time' tourneys where the heavy sponsorship dollars are needed. They still think that the rod itself is important, and how it's made 'matters'.

But, if they get to the 'big time' that's where we lose them. At that point, they need the dollars from sponsorships, and will use the rods that their 'sponsor' in that area sells. Just good business sense, and since the rod really doesn't matter all that much to their success (after a certain level of quality, it's the fishermen, not the tackle), they use the 'brand' that pays them.

Almost all of the custom rods that I used to sell that weren't fly rods were built for tournament guys. It's a good market.

Buddy Sandeers

"...but the wait for some of these carefully wrapped masterpieces can be eternal."

Of the guys I know, that is the biggest reason they won't buy a custom rod. When they decide they want a new rod, they want it now or in the 3 days it takes to ship one to them from a big box. Lots of people want everything right now. :(

I always tell the customer "2 weeks" and unless I have to special order something [very rare] I usually deliver in less than that. We are building fishing rods not moon rockets. Jesse

It all depends on what level of rod you're building and who you're building it for. Most of my rods sold for upwards of $500 each. I stayed about 6 to 8 weeks behind for about 10 years. There are other guys who are even further behind on their orders.

Custom builders also have to determine what niche they're going to try and fill. Are you going to semi-mass produce low end rods for the masses? Or build a higher end rod for a more discriminating clientele? And, there's always the middle ground.


................

Bill,

That is a nicely written endorsement for custom rods. The only problem is that is doesn't point out that not all custom rods are created equal. In some fashion, what one custom builder does reflects heavily on what another does. Many fishermen look at the custom rod market as being pretty much the same top to bottom. And of course, that's not really true.


..............

One poorly designed/built knockoff of a Wally World rod sold as a "Custom" rod not only turns off the buyer from custom rods but also turns off everyone that he talks to. ANYONE can build a rod, but not everyone can build a high quality/high performing Custom Rod. I don't mean to sound "Elitest" as I am far from being a Top builder and envy the work of many, if not most, of the builders here.

I have seen first hand the impact that a poorly build custom rod can have on all of us. I watched a seminar at a LARGE fishing show by a highly regarded Pro walleye angler who cautioned his large audience NOT to waste their money on a custom rod as there was little difference from any rod off of the shelf except the price and he passed around a "custom" rod that he paid $300 for and he was right! I could have bought an equal or maybe even a better rod for $50! I have encountered this same attitude from speakers at the walleye federation that I belong to.

IMO, the problem is that anyone can throw up a website for $50 a year and sell "Custom" rods for a type of fishing that they have never even done or know nothing about. I have seen posts here and on other forums from people that haven't even built a rod yet, talking about sales, buying wholesale, marketing,etc. You may not realize it, but every one of these rods sold has a definate negative impact on the entire craft

Sorry about the rant, but it's a sore subject with me

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2007 04:20PM by Mike Barkley.

Mike, I think everbody's had or will have that early phase In rodbuilding where their grandious ideas of one type of rod well designed and esthetically well constructed by the custom builder, will cross-over equally effectively to other types of rods that CAN be built better than their mass produced counterparts. When I was a young person I felt compelled to build a Musky rod for an uncle , which I only later realized is not where my talents lay. Even today after many epiphanies in the rodbuilding communities, I don't think the top -notch builders would sell anyone a rod they are not familiar with and certainly would not charge much (if anything) for that rod if they did build it. Being predominantly nothing but a flyfisher, my comfort zone stays within custom flyrods, and particularly - freshwater flyrods (OK, maybe the occasional spinning rod). If today asked to build someone a musky rod, I would have to refer them to a rodbuilder who's primary product and interests lay in fishing for muskies. I have no idea what characteristics are ideal for a well built musky rod.

We can only hope that there are customers, members and fans of the custom rod who understand that we can only really begin to master what we are very familiar with. (And hopefully they'll forgive my if they ever bare witness to my uncle's musky rod.)

Great post Mike, but your behind the times. You don't need to spend $50 on a website, there's this new place called @#$%& where any hack can sell all the "CUSTOM" junk they want.

Matt,
Good point!! At least with @#$%&, anyone buying there (and I do buy stuff there, just never rods or blanks!) should realize that they are essentially buying a possible "pig in a poke"

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

[www.rodbuilding.org]

This is a task specific rod, using the best available components, built to the exacting standards of a very competent angler! It was a winner, he was a winner and so was the builder!

It never saw the inside of a retail store and @#$%& was not involved in the business transaction. This is an example of the types of rods referred to in the text of the original post by Zander on this thread.

Gon Fishn

Torin,

My post was meant more on general rodbuilding experience/abilities than type specific (maybe I shouldn't have said it that way) I was referring to the fact that anyone can "hang out a shingle" as a Custom builder with absolutely NO skills, ability or knowledge into what goes in to a quality, efficient, precision fishing tool. I agree that it isn't rocket science but there is more to it than slapping a bunch of components together. There is a BIG difference, IMO, between a home made rod and a "Custom" rod. Like it or not, those "home made" rods reflect on EVERY one of us.

Again, I'm NOT putting anyone down in any way.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Question to Mike Barkley.....If this is such a sore subject to you why in the world did you let a "pro" who has to know the difference between a $300.00 custom built rod and a $50.00 rod buy this rod and pass it around a large gathering bad knocking the custom rod builder when you yourself are one without speaking out to defend the better rod builders like yourself ???????

Tight Lines
Tight Wraps
Fishin'Stix by Fred

Fred,
I have no idea when or where he bought the rod This was at a large show and he had an audience of a couple hundred. The man is VERY well known and I wasn't about to get into a p**** match with him that I would have lost and looked stupid doing so.. The fact that he was a pro simply means that he is able to fish full time, has sponsors and is good enough to win enough to make a name for himself. It doesn't mean that he knows that much about the rods that he uses. When this has come up at local events/clubs, I do speak up. I would never take on someone in a situation like that and look like I'm trying to embarrass him. I did talk to him at a different time and he still didn't feel that a custom rod was worth the cost

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I have seen many "pro" anlgers and tournament guys that rip accross a 300 acre lake, with no regard or appreciation for nature or any other anglers. The fact that they don't appreciate a nice custom rod is no big surprise. Gotta just let that one go. Just like everything else, some people appreciate things, others never will. I agree with Torin, just this week I turned down an order for a rod I am not familiar with, and sent them to a builder that is very good at that type of rod. The lady ordering it for her fiance wouldn't have known the difference, and I could have easily made a profitable sale.

There's two ways to skin the same - well, animal (hope that didn't offend anyone in particular)

1) Build some nice "rack" rods a demos. Lend them to your bass-type buddies. The let them order something.

2) Offer custom rods but without the embelishments. A straight, plan butt wrap matched to the guide wraps in some bright colors does the trick. Keep the build simple - meaning that you don't necessarily use minimum numbers of guides or garbage cork, but neither do you use super-high-end components either. Keep the workmanship upo to your standards. Keep the wait time around two-three weeks - which means scheduling the work and keeping the build simple.

Meantime, let the guy compete with your demo rods. Often times, he'll buy that one too.

Mike, you're right. It's a pet peeve of mine too. BTW, a lot of wannabe pros and semi-pros have no problem asking for "sponsorships" - as in, free. My answer is when you buy our rod and show it around and bring us a customer or two, we'll talk about our name on your jumpsuit and some special deals.

I know that sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to. But we're small, still working very hard to sell each rod, and freebies to wannabes is just not in our business model right now.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Very well put Russ!

Marc

I would like to reflect on what Mike said earlier. I just completed a 7' Crappie rod built on a Popping Blank for pitching live minnows into stake beds . This rod was built exactly to the customers specifications. He is a retired Major from the State Fish and Wildlife Dept, Law Enforcement Div. When he retired, his peers bought him a Custom Built Crappie rod as a retirement gift. I have seen this rod laying in his boat on a number of occasions but I never commented on it. Never saw him fish with it either. This has got to be the trashiest rod anyone has ever thrown together. Where they found this so called rod builder I will never know.
This is definitely one of the rod builders Mike is talking about that is making the rest of us look bad. The guy that just "hangs out a shingle".This guy was not a craftsman, did not have any skills that were obvious. Not only did he not know anything about rod building. It was obvious he didn't suspect anything either.
Now I've got to get a few thousand more rods under my belt before I would consider myself an expert, top notch builder but I know Quality and Craftsmanship when I see it.

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY

Very well put , Russ. I have had the same problem with professional fishing guides. I tried for a few months years back to work with the guides, but they want everything free or dirt cheap and they trash the rods something terrible. I suggested they quit using graphite and go to heavy fiberglass or solid steel so they could have a rod that lasted more than 5 days. I also suggested they look elsewhere for a builder or just buy the cheapest thing they can find at any big box store...and buy them by the gross. My life (and my business) improved instantly when I gave up the notion of working with fishing guides on rods.

Joe Douglas

I wonder how some custom builders can possibly equate "fishing guides" with "bass fishermen" and lump "UFO Groups" of potential customers into one group they do not care to do business with. This thread was started to stimulate high end rod sales to a very specific group of pretty good fishermen. As was stated by the Tackle Tour Editor, who is pretty influential, with his positve statements, many fishermen are now seeking custom builders to build very specialized custom rods that are not available on the production level by their current sponsors. If that does not mean very much to you, if one of them calls you to build a light weight, shaky head casting rod for 1/16 oz baits or a light weight large swim bait rod setup for arm tuck feel free to turn them down and please refer them to me! I very seriously doubt that they will be interested in a fiber glass blank or steel fishing rods.

Gon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 04:56PM by Bill Stevens.