Thanks again for all the info Bill. I am going to Sumo this weekend on a walleye spinning rod, and was wondering how long you leave the handle clamped after glueing? It's a standard 9" rear gip, 17 MM seat, 2-1/2" fore grip. Also, what reel seat arbors have you had the best luck with on Sumo Glue?

Thanks,
Marc

Mark the answer to the cure time is the 18 one down on this link: If you did not read all of the bulleted items it might be helpful if you do. There is a lot of good information on the link.

[www.sumoglue.com]

I use Flexcoat arbors for all builds that require arbors.

For that type construction you list I typically use no clamp. Everything is reamed for a close fit, close and not extemely tight that will stay in place when pulled in place. The Sumo really requires no real clamping for this type of work. Dampen one of the surfaces, apply adhesive, pull into place, wipe extruded excess, pull tight and hold for a couple of minutes, wipe again and let sit for a couple of hours without moving and your are done. Remember work slowly and carefully and do not get any on your hands - you will not be able to remove the stain.

Post edit

I forgot something that is important - this is the real reason that Rodmaker Magazine and printed text are better to transmit detailed information like this - this way it is almost impossibe to cover all the valuable details by typing on a post like this. This lack of detail could lead people a direction that will diminish results of a good product.-

Moisture is what makes the adhesive work and it will begin to foam when it contacts moisture. Therefore the adhesive out of the bottle should be applied to the dry blank with something like a popsycle stick - then shove a damp paper towel through the cork to add a tad of moisture for aid in curing - then pull the piece into place - the foaming will start inside and shove some of the residual out the ends that you wipe off. This procedure will minimize the mess and allow a much cleaner and stronger joining of the surfaces. You want the foaming to occur inside and not outside where it will all be wiped off when you shove the two pieces together.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2007 09:12PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
What is the color like? Does it show glue lines on the cork?

Emory what I use is tan and generates a white foam. I do not glue rings and use preformed cork for all builds. The clamp pressure in the Sumo instructions notes not to apply too much pressure to extrude out all product out from bonded joints. I would suspect that a line of adhesive would be visible with Sumo. Bob Meiser uses a similar moisture curing product on cork rings quite successfully on high end rods. All of my casting rod builds use blank exposed seats and the Sumo glue joint is not visible in the window cut out.

Example black seat blue St Croix blank - Sumo adhesive - no arbor

[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2007 07:47AM by Bill Stevens.

when you all use the Flex Coat arbors do you glue the arbor to the blank first or to the reel seat first?

Bill,
Thanks

Emory,

I use Titebond Waterproof, as do all of our regional shops now.

I only do ring on ring <> Milled in place on the blank.

Couple thousand plus grips done (including bonding all wood insert and metal barrel reel seats) over the past 5 years <> No visible lines after years of hard grip use.

Not one ring or seat has ever lost adhesion.

Wears evenly with the cork, and does not absorb hand oils.

No ring lines visible on either cork composites or conventional cork rings

Cramp and prep blank the same as Epoxy ... Best to add a mist of H2O to dampen all bonded surfaces.

It is amber colored un-cured, dries to a light tan.

One consideration: This adhesive will fill voids extremely welI <> A good thing and a bad thing.

I suggest cork rings of only the best quality available, with minimal through voids as this adhesive WILL seek and fill all voids that it has access to.

These filled voids will show on the milled surface of poor quality cork.

No Amines

Bob Meiser

P.S

Sorry Bill <> Did not want to steal the Sumo thread with Titebond.

Although I've not tried it <> I would assume that Sumo would have the same bonding characteristics as the Titebond we use, and as Bill mentioned; it does not appear to foam out as much as some will do.

A real plus.

All liquid polyurethanes now available that my co-wokers and I have tried over the years seem to work well in the field in a broad range of applications.

I have been using various types of Titebond liquid polyurethanes in arc-millwork for nearly 15 years (generally all exterior) so have great faith in the product.

I was a bit leary at first to use it for rod building applications, thinking it would be a tad messy.

But I knew it had superb bonding characteristics <> Plus another incentive being that I am very allergic to Epoxy / Amines.

But once the learning curve was acheived...

... It's the only grip / reel seat bonder we'll now use in the shop for our rods.

Bob Meiser

Bob,
Thanks, I guess I am going to have to give it a try.

Sounds like something I need to get. Have yet to see any of the polyurethances actually list their strength, but if Locktit says stronger and faster, that's a plus.
Does there seem to be any difference in the proportion it foams, compared to others like Gorilla or Ultimate?

I would guess about 1/3 of the foaming of Gorilla Glue. The bonding strengths of the product are very high and are listed on the Loctite site. Locktite is a highly respected maker of many adhesives and their products normally meet the expectations of the user. They have too much vested to put out bad information. It will require some thought, procedure change and learning curve to swap over from expoxy systems for rodbuilding purposes. I only did so due to health issues and the product was reccommended by Ralph O'Quinn. I believe the strength of the system is comparable to Rod Bond which was my adhesive of choice.

Sounds great. See if I see it on the shelf around me now. Ste says WallMart has it, so I'll give that a try. I've liked everything about Loctite/Duro stuff for a long time.
I used the Elmer's Ultimate in test seat mounting about a month back. I couldn't get that to fail, so the Loctite should do even better for a margin of safety.
Actually,I sorta liked high foaming tho. I was using that as built-in void filler. But as the Sumo foams too, should still work for me. Just need more of it I suppose.
Have a link to the strength numbers? So far I'm not finding them.

try home depot and lowes also they both have a lot of loctite products(mostly epoxies)

[www.loctite.com]

Yeah, already poked around there Bill, but the commercial site has no mention of Sumo, and the consumer site no mention of pounds per square inch. If you've seen it somewhere, do you remember the number? Basically I'm looking for the warm fuzzy comparison to epoxys that do list numbers.
BTW,,, downloaded the 10Mb Loctite Adhesive Source book too. Sumo isn't in there either

Sorry I can not find it now either. Somewhere I printed a hard copy of the psi numbers and I will look for it and post later. My real numbers are deternimed in a vice with pipe wrench and hatchets.

.."My real numbers are deternimed in a vice with pipe wrench and hatchets."
Understood Bill,,,, sounds like we 'play' with things similarly. I've no hatchet anywhere, but do break out the wrenches, hammers and pry bars frequently :-)
Thanks in advance......D

Dave go to this link:

[www.bindingsource.com]

Select the selection guide PDF Link on the middle right

Take a look at the comparison of reccommended adhesives for 3M Products. It does not speciffically list Sumo but the types of adhesives are compared.