"There are tournaments here, and I see high-dollar rods lying in the bed of pick-ups, crammed into SUVs, etc. They get picked up six or ten at a time and handed butt first into a boat (held by the upper 1/4 and bent past 90 deg) and then tossed on the deck."

Chuck, just for you: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Your above quote is how all my artsy rods are treated. I usually fish with my parents & wife, so I'll have between 6-10 rods with me piled up and tangled in teh back of our truck. I am not a fan of babying my rods, regardless of how tehy looked or how long it took me to build. I don't expect others to baby teh rods either, and based on the picture..they don't lol.

I want to thank those of you who did answer my question. At least I don't feel alone or that I'm doing anything wrong now. I can and do a lot of crosswraps and think I'm pretty darn good at it. But it doesn't seem to be what the customers want most of the time so I'm going to focus on other things. Guys are already BUYING my rods. But they don't want the thread art that I have on my personal rods. They just aren't interested. That was what I wanted to know. Was this pretty normal or not. I'm guessing from the replies that it's pretty normal.

I think my rods are very functional but it will take me a little more time and study to learn all the tips and tweaks for wringing out every little bit of performance in a rod. I'll study the article on ergonomic stuff and go back over some guide placement articles. Maybe there is still room for more improvement in there somewhere.

REd = red ?
Someday I'm gonna visit you Billy and remap your T and H on the keyboard too. Sometimes I swear you have a cyrillic keyboard. :-)

BTW,,,, art is something appreciated by the creator or someone else for aesthetic reasons. A craft is a using methodology to create something. Rod building is a craft, which contains some true artists, some aspiring artists, some who can't do art, some who won't do art, and some who just plain don't care. Mix in the occasional sour grape, some hardened biases, egos, and stubborness.

Can the artist create a super functioning rod? Of course. But can the hack create the same rod aesthetically? Not without time, energy, skills, and talent. Remember the challenge I tried to make to your Rod Challenge? That the 'best' should have to in some way replicate an effort by another in that elite group, chosen in a random way. I think it would be great fun, and maybe bring an appreciation of varied skills too..

Good words of wisdom by Chuck. With many thanks to guys here who've shared tips and techniques, I've learned cool new stuff that even if I may not personally like on my rods, continue to practice just because there is no good reason not to. One thing I hope I never have to do is turn somebody away for the unacceptable reasons that "I don't know how to do that", or "I don't think I'm good enough at that yet".

Hey Billy are you tring to impress me by screwing up your spelling more than normal or are you tring to impersonate me? In any case I am stil the King of the Hill in spelling and punkuateing LOL. Just kidd en. In all seriousness there were some great comments.
Good Wraps Bob

Lawrence Munsinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to thank those of you who did answer my
> question. At least I don't feel alone or that I'm
> doing anything wrong now. I can and do a lot of
> crosswraps and think I'm pretty darn good at it.
> But it doesn't seem to be what the customers want
> most of the time so I'm going to focus on other
> things. Guys are already BUYING my rods. But they
> don't want the thread art that I have on my
> personal rods. They just aren't interested. That
> was what I wanted to know. Was this pretty normal
> or not. I'm guessing from the replies that it's
> pretty normal.
>
> I think my rods are very functional but it will
> take me a little more time and study to learn all
> the tips and tweaks for wringing out every little
> bit of performance in a rod. I'll study the
> article on ergonomic stuff and go back over some
> guide placement articles. Maybe there is still
> room for more improvement in there somewhere.

Lawrence, I think you're on the right track. Ergonomics is a perfect example - one that really hit home after a week on Lake of the Woods.

Tom,
You are right and I apologize for my inappropriate comments.

I do know that thread wraps are at times hard to sell to a customer and there has been quite a bit of discussion of Art vs Function. I work at a auto dealership and hear a simular argument day in and day out. Car sales makes all the money in the dealership, Service dept is making all of the money in the dealership, Ect, Ect. The truth of the mater is that it takes all dept's (or facets of rod building) to be truley healthy and profitable. One can't strictly sell a functional rod only and expect to sell to every one, nor can you rely on looks alone. Form and function need to go hand in hand. I my self like the cross wraps, but there is just something about a stealth rod that I love. I honestly think that a rod with out wraps has a very special place as does the one with wraps. We need to be balanced in order to do the right thing for a customer. Just my opinion. Mark

mark blabaum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
One can't strictly sell a functional rod only and expect to sell to every one, nor can you rely on looks alone. Form and function need to go hand in hand. I my self like the cross wraps, but there is just something about a stealth rod that I love. I honestly think that a rod with out wraps has a very special place as does the one with wraps. We need to be balanced in order to do the right thing for a customer. Just my opinion.
Mark


Well said!

"Pimp my Rods"

This has been a great thread to read after a hot lousy day at work...thank you all.

I don't sell a ton of rods, mainly because I don't care to. Like Billy said, I build them because I love them (I had a job and I don't want another one)and selling them gives me money and reason to build more. I will never be even remotely in the class of those I mentioned above but 99% of the rods that I have sold are because of the decorative grips, art (be it marbling, feathers or whatever. I have not used preformed grips in at least 10 years and I RARELY use regular cork (2 grips in the last several years. Every grip/seat is eitherwood, burl, acrylic or combination and so far I have never built a "plain Jane" rod except for my very first. That is what attracts my customers and the performance of the rod is what brings them back. I fully agree that I probably don't get the money that the labor warrants but I don't really care because I don't consider it labor, I consider it a joy and love the comments that I get! As long as I make a $100 min profit on every rod I sell, I'm a happy camper!

Everybody build rods for different reasons and has varied goal and interests! To make these differences adversarial is divisive and elitist I consider ANY well built, high performace rod, whether it be artistic or "plain Jane" a beautiful thing and we should be admiring and respecting the talents/abilities of ANYONE that builds quality rods, regardless of their preferences/tastes Since when has rodbuilding become an "Us vs Them" craft.
Just to stir the pot one last time, I believe Mark at @#$%& recently mentioned that Billy's thread art book outsell ALL of the rod books that he sells! It wasn't that long ago that people were jumping at copies of Clemens Thread Ard book and paying as much as $200+ for an out of print copy.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Michael I totally agree - this was as good as it gets! It qualifies as a modern day Friday Funnies - It is the 13th you know. Glad you were out of the "tunnels" to partake of the goodies. I was kinda worried that TK would pull the plug but civility prevailed in the end!

You know if you can't make a little fun, some of these threads would get boaring. I know Putter and Emory pick on my spelling, but at least it makes us laugh:))
Good Wraps Bob

Hey Bob - that's boring, not boaring ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think Mark B and Mike B said it best.

,,,, but have you wondered what would happen if someone wanted the word 'the' on a inscrption weave from some people? :-)

I mix my finish in a cup and pour it onto foil.a little heat from a torch to pop the bubbles and spatula it on.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I'll try that again Fred, right after I switch my car insurance to GEICO.
Seriously,
Billy, I like the pricing stratagy and cold truth you mentioned early in the post for anybody wishing to sell art in rod form. I think it helps.
If I ever get the idea that Im any good, I'll buy a special rod from Mark Crouse and hang it in my shop, right above the place I bang my head.

It's interesting - the "low-end" stores want some sort of decorative butt wrap because that's what their under-$100 chinese rods all have, regardless of brand, and they think a higher-end rod has to has to have it too. The higher-end stores sometimes do, and sometimes don't. But the individual customers will rarely opt for the artwork because they just simply don't want to pay for it.

So we do simple wraps, maybe a short open chevron or a spiral barber-pole blend. But when we put their name on the rod, it might as well be the most complex weave you can think of, so big are the grins.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

WOW !!!
I'm glad I went fishing !!!
Tight Lines
Bill Rice

Rich at least someone reads my post:)) I would have thought Emory or Putter would have chimbed in on that one. One thing for sure this thraed had some interesting posts.
Good Wraps Bob