So far I have bought all my supplies from a couple of the sponsors here and at a local shop. No problems to report, in fact both Mudhole and @#$%& have GREAT communication and knowledge.
BUT - is there a way for a small time builder to buy at something other than MSRP? I saw somewhere that - I think it was Batson.. has wholesale prices, BUT requires larger orders... Are most of you on here that just build a few rods here and there buying retail?

-Steve

Tampa, FL

I doubt you're buying much of anything at MSRP. Most everything is sold well below MSRP even to regular "retail" customers. For that reason, you may find that buying wholesale doesn't really save you that much money, unless you're buying large quantities of items.

If you are actually in the rod building business, selling rods and filing and paying the sales and excise taxes, then you would likely qualify for wholesale or distributor pricing from most of the component suppliers. Most will require that you provide them with a copy of your business license or tax ID number. Check with them and find out their particular requirements.

..................

Tom,

Thanks for the reply. An example is this: Published on theG Loomis website is a P844 GL3 blank at $100 MSRP... You go to mudhole and it is exactly $100... not to mention they paid to have it shipped, then I have to pay AGAIN to have it shipped. It is also exactly that way for Calstar blanks...
I have seen on the Merrick tackle site that there blanks are less 10% BUT they do not have prices on their site ??? so I guess you have to call to check any prices.

-Steve

Tampa, FL

Steve,

Tom's right about "MSRP". Not a lot is priced there. What you WILL see is "MAP" (minimum advertised price) in most cases where everybody's got the same price. Almost all sponsors offer wholesale pricing, buy you'll never see those prices advertised, or online. That's why you don't see pricing on Merrick's site.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

If you order a little larger qty/$$ from Fishsticks4u, they have a nice discount structure for regular retail customers - great service too!

Marc

The answer to your question is "Yes, there is a way for a small time builder to save and qualify for wholesale pricing." But, you have to be willing to deal with the paperwork necessary to support that privilege.

As mention, two documents that will get your foot in the door are a employer identification number or FED EID and a county Vendor's License. The EID is free, just call the IRS.

In Ohio, a county vendor's license is $25.

From that point out you'll be required to file Form 720 Quarterly Excise Tax reports. Every rodbuild over $100 is $10 to Uncle Sam. You'll file whether you have anything to report or not.

You'll also have to file (in my state) local tax collected/exemption forms every 6 months. You'll report and pay local taxes on rodbuilds delivered within any county in your state (this is Ohio law) at the county tax rate of the recipient. If you do business out of state (I do), you'll report the amount of sales that are exempt because of out of state sales.

At the end of the year, under a certain amount of sales, you'll report profits for income tax purposes as well.

If you're ok with these requirements, then the world of wholesale is open to you for the most part.

If you're a "small time" builder, then go to the next step may not be worth the effort. Just make sure you are "small time" under the law or someone may just check up on you one of these days for an audit.

Hope that helps you decide.

Domenic Federico
Infinity Rod Creations
Wickliffe Ohio
440-840-4521

There are a few companies that still participate in "Fair Trade Pricing" (which is very good for the health of any industry) but only a few do that in regards to custom rod building. American Tackle is one, I think. Loomis may be another.


..............

Mark,
Thanks for the reply. Are you saying to call in my next order and maybe we can "discuss" pricing... or similiar with other sponsors?
i am self-employed and have an EIN #, but nothing I do is resale vedor type stuff. Sales tax is something I do not deal in.

-Steve

Tampa, FL

I think Fishsticks4u has their discount right on their website. It might be listed under specials or sales. Otherwise give them a call.

Good luck,
Marc

And be rest assured that if you forget to file that 720 form, you will be hearing from the IRS.

Guys who are not involved in the resale of their rods to customers have no business applying for wholesale pricing. The very idea is that it is pricing for resellers. Usually, not always but usually, it also requires that you buy in larger quantities and to uphold a certain buying figure each year.

If the tax ID or business license you are wanting to use is for anything other than a bonafide rod building business, the dealer should deny it.

.................

Steve Email me at broderick6@comcast.net I am in sw fla also and would like to talk to you outside of rmo. Billy

do you have to go through all the tax stuff if...

1. you build a rod for yourself and use it for a while and decide you want to get rid of and sell it
or
2. you build a rod to sell every once in a while

Tom,

Please do not take me wrong... I was not planning or eluding to using my EIN in order to apply as a rod builder... I HAVE however used it to get some better deals at the Home Depot :)
The whole reason for this thread was to see if any place sells at a discount. I have ONLY found MSRP or higher... yes, one place is about 15% over MSRP.
Some places... online places... say, when buying an Accurate reel, will still charge the MSRP, but then give you FREE shipping, FREE dacron or whatever line, AND you save the sales tax if out of state - this type of deal seems fair. BUT charging MSRP, not even having to provide me a brick and mortar shop to SEE what I am buying, then not having items in stock and having me wait 3 weeks is a load of poop.
It is my belief that part of charging Full Price should be having items IN stock and ready to go, and I also believe that if you are not providing me a sales clerk, or any normal store type overhead, that you should make it up to customers in other ways.

-Steve

Tampa, FL

Here my limited take, if your intention is to make a serious effort as a custom rodbuilder, then go for it. So far I have found it to be a very rewarding endeavor even though the record keeping is tedious. If your intention is to try a save a few bucks here and there on products for your own personal use, it's not worth it. Just pay the "msrp" and be happy doing it.

Steve,Whether the vendor is a brick and mortar store or works out of a cardboard box they still have overhead.the order does not go in through the internet,then the payment directly to the bank,and the items mysteriously into a box with a self printed mailing label.Someone has to do this.This to me is a little more work than than the person behind the counter has to do.Most sponsors will help with tech problems over the phone so add that service too.Yes pricing can be shopped but usually the supplier doing deep discounts is not around too long.Shipping is the only thing that I really watch out for as some are more fair than others.Want to save some $$$$ ???Go to High Point in February and.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Jon,

If you build and see even one rod the IRS considers you a rod manufacturer. Thus selling the occasional rod puts you liable for collecting and paying the sportsfishing excise tax. Same with your local county and state sales tax.

Now if you're only talking about sell an old rod that you made for yourself and have used a bit, I wouldn't worry too much about that. But if it becomes a habit to do this every so often, well...


..........


Steve,

I understand what you're saying. Most companies are already selling for less than MSRP. I realize a few manufacturers don't allow it (thank goodness) but most do and most dealers are not charging you MSRP. If you shop around I think you'll find plenty of "deals."

Sometimes a discount can be had by buying in larger quantities or taking advantage of seasonal sales. No doubt you can save a ton at the ICRBE in February, although that's just a once a year thing. But the savings are really something to crow about and if you can buy items that you know you'll be using throughout the rest of the year you can save a substantial amount, even less than if you were buying wholesale in many instances.

............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2007 10:31PM by Tom Kirkman.

If you want to see what MSRP is, go look at the stuff listed in the Cabelas catalog.

As we say here in the south, Loomis seems to "think real highly" of their stuff. It's not only priced at the top of the market but their business practices with their retailers leave very little room to mess with the MSRP unless the retailer is a seriously major player.

I think the words above contain a lot of wisdom. Either you are a builder-for-sale or you're not. Selling a used rod at a yard sale doesn't constitute a retailer and the fact that you have an EIN doesn't cut it with most of the vendors - see, if they get audited, they have to prove you are tax exempt by showing their record of your sales tax license, and sometimes your business license. The auditors - state, local, or whatever - have the right to query you for the accuracy and veracity of their info, even though they are in a different state.

Not paying the sales tax at purchase is in and of itself a heck of a savings, depending on your location and the vendor's location. Remember, the current laws state that they have to collect sales tax if (a) you're in the same state but don't have a STx number and (b) if they have a "business presence" in your state. There's also some reciprocal state-to-state sales tax laws and a number of vendors don't care where you live, without the STx certificate on file, they're going to cover their backsides by charging tax.

You also need to be careful with the Stx certificate in your own state. Once you get it, you're required to file periodically. Miss that, and they start sending you nasty letters. Keep reporting 0 sales for a long enough time and they will send enquiries about that.

The difference between a hobby and a business is a lot more than simply getting wholesale pricing. Remember if you have an EIN the Feds will be looking for annual tax returns, employer returns, and the like.

BTW, some vendors won't sell you anyhthing without proof that you're a serious business. But then, I think you already know that.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

If you want to see what MSRP is, go look at the stuff listed in the Cabelas catalog.

As we say here in the south, Loomis seems to "think real highly" of their stuff. It's not only priced at the top of the market but their business practices with their retailers leave very little room to mess with the MSRP unless the retailer is a seriously major player.

I think the words above contain a lot of wisdom. Either you are a builder-for-sale or you're not. Selling a used rod at a yard sale doesn't constitute a retailer and the fact that you have an EIN doesn't cut it with most of the vendors - see, if they get audited, they have to prove you are tax exempt by showing their record of your sales tax license, and sometimes your business license. The auditors - state, local, or whatever - have the right to query you for the accuracy and veracity of their info, even though they are in a different state.

Not paying the sales tax at purchase is in and of itself a heck of a savings, depending on your location and the vendor's location. Remember, the current laws state that they have to collect sales tax if (a) you're in the same state but don't have a STx number and (b) if they have a "business presence" in your state. There's also some reciprocal state-to-state sales tax laws and a number of vendors don't care where you live, without the STx certificate on file, they're going to cover their backsides by charging tax.

You also need to be careful with the Stx certificate in your own state. Once you get it, you're required to file periodically. Miss that, and they start sending you nasty letters. Keep reporting 0 sales for a long enough time and they will send enquiries about that.

The difference between a hobby and a business is a lot more than simply getting wholesale pricing. Remember if you have an EIN the Feds will be looking for annual tax returns, employer returns, and the like.

BTW, some vendors won't sell you anyhthing without proof that you're a serious business. But then, I think you already know that.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Steve,

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to open the flood gates of negotiation. lol I was simply trying to explain how/why so many vendors could be selling UNDER MSRP and still end up at the same price on a given SKU. I keep seeing the term "MSRP" getting tossed around here and seriously, like Tom said above, VERY little gets sold at MSRP. I can sincerely say that I can't think of anything on our site that's at MSRP. Same goes for the other Sponsors here.

As far as the reasoning for a wholesale discount, it's applied to customers who are RESELLING what they buy. Most of these customers know exactly what they want, buy it in quantity and buy it often. No fuss, no muss. I've had to revoke wholesale discounts before to guys who come in with their paperwork making them "legal", then spend hours looking at every guide in the drawers, asking all kinds of questions that a "pro" shouldn't ask and after three hours of handling everything in the place, walk out with parts to make a $30 rod. I go through that with the same "pro' a couple of times and we're done. If another vendor can devote that kind of time and energy to make a buck or two an hour, they're welcome to it. Don't get me wrong, I love working with people, but when someone's first order of business is seeing how far they can drive your price down and THEN needs to know how to build it? C'mon... You would probably be surprised to know how many people have sent in all their paperwork to buy wholesale, then their first order is for a "Rod Building Basics" book. Guess what... NO DISCOUNT! lol


Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California