I was thinking if I got some lead pencil weight and made tape bushings big enough to slide inside the blank and Rod Bonded it it would make a nice counter balance. Does anyone do this or are there any problems that can come from doing this?

Let's fish,
Chris

Yes!
Dont do it! At least on a smaller light rod. I did that very thing to a trout rod I built for my brother in-law.
He insisted that the rod balance at a certain point with his reel mounted. I used the lightest and fewest
guides possible other than Recoils and still had to had weight to the butt,

The problem I ran into with the round lead was that as you push the lead into the blank not all the weight
is at the end. Lead is pushed up closer to the seat thus changing the balance point. The lead added more
weight to balance than the entire rod weighed with out it. I think the rod weighed less than 1 1/2 oz and I
must have put 3 or 4 inches on lead into the butt. ( about 3 1/2 oz!!) He loves the rod and with the reel
mounted I can feel the extra weight but he can't I guess.

If 100% of the needed weight can be added to the very tip of the butt I could have gotton away with much less.

Balance is a bit over rated in my book although many would disagree with me.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Works just fine Chris. Pro: balanced rig, yes, there is a fair bit of added weight, but a balanced rig feels really comfortable. Con: can't adjust the weight to suit balance when using a different reel/rig etc.

A trick I learned from one of Tom K.'s posts & photos is to build the seat
with 2 threaded barrels. That way BOTH hoods move back & forth & inable
you to shift the reels mounting point forward or backwards to obtain the
balance.

This trick wont work for all types of rods but it is a good one use at times.

Thanks Tom!!!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Really depends on how thick the rod butt is. On something pretty fat-butted, you shouldn't run into the problem Ray did, but on thin blanks, that's a definite possibility. Cut a length of the lead weight and tape it to the butt end and get it to the balance point you want (add or trim some lead: best to start oversize, as best as you can judge). If you end up with a really long piece, your choices are to try and hammer it shorter, but still fitting into the butt, or just put it into a buttcap like the BRC19 or even one of the other caps with a large enough inner cavity.

Ray,the way I do is to take 2 pieces of oak board and screw them together so they are flush on the end(maybe 6"x4").I then drill holes with a bit just smaller than the butt to different depths on the center line of the joint.I then go outside and melt some lead and pour it into the homemade mold.It will smoke the first few times.Then after the lead sets loosen the screws and remove the weights.The varied depths create different sizes and if you always build similar rods make a bunch for stock.If I remember I`ll bring mine home from work and snap a picture.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I believe there is a Commercially availble mold that will cast different size and weight pieces.
Might be "DO-IT MOLDS"

Barry is right there is a mold by Do-It molds that has 6 different diameters of weight to fit inside the butt of the blank.
There are three great articles in RodMaker Magazine Volume 6 – Issue #6 on balancing rods that has a lot of information and also has the part # for the mold.

Lynn

Rod balance may not be important to some, but the few rods that I have that are not balanced well don't get to go fishing with me. Although I hate the thought of adding weight in the butt, a balanced rod to me is more comfortable to use all day long than one that isn't. What I've done on several rods is to modify my cork grip. I'll dry fit the grip and reelseat onto the blank with the components and reel installed. I'll find where the balance point is and figure out what needs to be done to be able to grip the handle at that spot on the grip.

I was having trouble balancing a tip heavy Dan Craft 10' FT 8 weight. With a conventional 7" Full Wells grip I needed the balance point 1" forward of my normal resting spot on the grip. I contacted REC and they made me a 7 1/" Full Wells grip with no cutout in the bottom. I ordered an additional 1/2" ring with a cutout ot match my reel, glued and sanded it and wound up with a Full Wells grip that was 8" long - and it balances that 10' perfectly . Works for me!

If you are considering adding weight to the butt of a rod I think that you should first ask yourself which is more important the balance or sensitivity because you are trading one off for the other. Adding weight will definitely reduce the rods sensitivity. Under most circumstances adding weight at the butt of the rod has less affect than if the weight were added further up the blank but it still will reduce the sensitivity wherever it is added.
Others have a different view but for me personally using a high modulus blank and light guides and short guide wraps and a minimum of epoxy all to the keep the weight of the rod down and the performance of the rod up and then adding lead to the butt of the rod makes absolutely no sense. It is too high a price to pay in terms of rod performance for a rod with better balance.

I've done this on my walleye jigging rods all the time. I use round foam weatherstripping pushed into the blank. Then, use lead shotgun shot, the smaller the better, to balance the rod with the reel. Once you get the correct amount determined, mix it with 2 part epoxy. Replace into the blank and stand vertically to cure. Works great and will never move.

Get a roll of lead tape, cut off the required amount, bend, fold and hammer to shape. Epoxy in place,works every time.

Depending on your fishing application, I think a counter balance is necessary for some situations. I counter balance all my steelhead rods that I use for bottom bouncing in the feeder rivers into the Great Lakes. Otherwise my arm falls off after half a day. What I use is egg sinkers. Just find the size that fits the blank butt. Can be fine tuned by trimming the sinker. I insert some silicone caulking into the butt, set the egg sinks into the silicone and top off with a little more silicone to finish. This way they are secure but can be removed down the road of you want to change the balance. I like that it is flexible as I don't want anything rigid inside a blank that will fllex.

I am not sure that you are accomplishing everything that you want to accomplish by adding weight to the butt of your rods. You can get the rod to balance statically at the point that you want them to balance but that does not result in a dynamic balance or a balance while in motion, for example while casting. A dynamic balance is not going to be a function of just the weight but a function of the mass, inertia, and the moment of inertia on each side of the balance point. And the inertia of the terminal tackle must also be thrown into the equation. In some cases you may achieve a static balance by adding weight to the butt but actually make the dynamic balance worse.
If I felt strongly about a rods balance personally I think that I would be more inclined to try to achieve a dynamic balance by adjusting the moments of inertia, distance from the balance point to the tip of the rod and distance from the balance point to the end of the handle. However, I think that with many rods this is not going to be possible without creating an impractically long handle.

Interesting discussion. I have been meaning to order the RM back issue that talks about it. I agree with a lot of what Emory said, but I am thinking in terms of walleye jigging and using plastics for bass. I'd like to try it and learn more.

Fuji makes the EWBC21 weighted butt cap which is a fairly cheap way to go - about $3. I just got one in in case someone asks for it. It's a plastic butt cap with with a rubber end cap that houses 3 lead disks which are held by a small screw. You can use one, two or all three disks. They are stamped 3/8 so I assume it's 3/8 oz. So there you go - lead in the butt and adjustable. Granted - not real classy on a custom but a good way to go on a test rod to see if you like it.

Several walleye jiggers in my area buy rubber crutch tips and load them with copper pennies and slap them on nice rods. I fished with a friends $350 Loomis last year and he had done the crutch tip thing to it (like putting a vinyl hood bra on a Porsche). I caught some walleyes with it but I thought the rod felt dead, so that really made an impression on me.

Chuck

I agree with Emory, the balance point would probably change, everytime the position of the rod is changed (casting, reeling, fighting, etc. I don't know how much balancing the rod in a specific position will have on a day of fishing. It would need an awful lot of balancing before I would sacrifice the sensitivity and weight that I went to all the expense to get.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I had a gentlleman who wanted his walleye rod balanced. I used a product called Sticky Weight first on the outside of the rod to find how much was needed. After I found the weight, I drilled and put into the handle and finished off with cork. SICKY WEIGHT is a product sold in tackle store for adding weight to tune lures. It is made with tungsten and 99.9% lead free. tungsten is heavier than lead. Put epox in, made wad from what i use on rod to balance, pushed in, expox in back, finshed off butt with cork.

I am building the rod for soft plastics. From reading about production rods I thought a balance would increase sensitivity. So thanks for clearing that up.
Anyway, I was also thinking about lead strips and making bushings out of that for the fighting butt. Maybe that would be good in combo with the inner weight to replace the long lead used in lighter rods (if you use a fighting butt).
Does it really kill that much sensitivity?

Let's fish,
Chris

Chris,
It naturally depends upon how much weight is added but generally the answer is yes it does have a significant affect on sensitivity. There is an article on sensitivity and the variables that affect it coming out in the next RodMaker. If you can wait for that it will give you a better feeling for the affect of weight then can be explained here.

I strongly agree that a balanced rod is very important to a restful day of fishing.
I also respectfully disagree that adding a small amount of butt weight in the rod decreases sensitivity.
If a person has a balanced rod and is feeling for the ultimate bite - the rod can simply rest in the open palm of your hand while it gently feels for that next tap or click on the line from a biting fish.

If, however, the rod is quite tip heavy as is the case for many rods, then the hand is clenched tightly around the rod all day long - simply to hold the rod in a fishing position.

I also disagree that a long rod should have a long handle. What is the point of having an 8 foot long rod and then putting a 2 foot handle on the rod to get a reasonable balance on the rod. Although you have a total length of 8 feet, you only have a fishible rod of 6 feet with the 2 foot handle.

Balancing the rod is very quick, easy and inexpensive. Get a roll of 1/2 inch wide lead tape. This may be obtained from many industrial suppliers, surplus stores or other locations. The lead tape is similar to scotch tape in that it has an agressive adhesive on one side and is plain lead on the other side. The back is typically covered with a strip off piece of paper to keep the tape from sticking to itself in the roll.

Decide on the inner diameter of the butt cap that you are going to put on a rod. Lets suppose that you use a typical butt cap that is 1 inch in diameter. This equates to a .075 inner diameter. I set my caliper to .074 and add a roll of lead tape to the outside of the extreme butt of the rod that is no larger than .074.

Depending on the length of the back grip of the rod, the overall balance point of the bare blank can be fairly easily computed. If in doubt, simply use masking tape to roughly tape the components in place on the rod, where you would like them to be in the final configuration. Then, use a bit of tape to determine the required balance point of the rod.

I have found by building many rods, that for a spinning rod that uses an 8 inch back grip that the bare blank can be balanced at a point that is at 15-16 inches from the butt of the rod. Thus, if the bare blank balances at 21 inches, lead is wrapped around the butt of the blank to bring the balance point back to 15-16 inches. Most blanks can be balanced by a 1/2 inch width of lead tape that ends up being smaller than the .074 diameter.

If you are working with a heavier blank and have decided to put a larger grip on the rod; the butt cap will be larger in the same ratio. Thus, if more weight is needed, the lead can be increase to be a bit smaller than the inner diameter of the butt cap to be installed on the rod.

I use individual cork rings to make the handles on the rods. I drill the first butt ring to match the diameter of the lead tape. If I happen to have a very badly balanced blank, or very long rod with a relatively shorter handle, there could be two rolls of lead tape on the butt of the rod. In that case, the first two rings will be bored larger to handle the size of the counter weight. Then, the rest of the cork is drilled and finally glued in place. The entire rod and handle is then spun in a lathe and the handle shaped according to customer wishes. Finally the butt cork is trimmed down to match the id of the butt cap and the cap is glued in place.
The end result is a perfectly balanced rod, with the minimum amount of added weight, since all added weight is in the extreme butt end 1/2 inch of blank. Typically, there is a thin layer of cork covering the counter weight, and the butt cap is glued overf that to make for an invisible balancing system.
Give it a try, you may like the feel of such a rod.