I have a lot of old Gudebrod metallic thread that dates probably to the mid 90s, and I'm wondering if it's as strong as the current HT metallic. Wasn't the earlier metallic thread weak, and not recommended for guide wraps? I do have a couple of newer spools that are marked as HT, but the label is missing from a lot of the spools, so I have no way of knowing.

Stanley
sschaefer2@gt.rr.com

If I remember correctly the old metallic in size A had about 1/3 the strength as the size A nylon.

I started using the Gudebrod metallics for wrapping (walleye) rods soon after it came on the market. I don't really know for sure if it's stronger now or not. I do think that the older stuff was strong enough for wrapping guides, though. I didn't have any problems with it personally.



Putter
Williston, ND

Ditto!

I have an old spool of Gudebrod gold metallic (wood spool) from the 80's
works just fine! Pleny strong enough.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Just a thought.
If you have an old thread and the color is what you want to use, then why not use Perma Gloss instead of Threadmaster or Flex Coat to encapsul the work?

The old Metallic thread is much weaker than the NEW IMPROVED HT Gudebrod Metallic thread. The HT sz "A" thread is as strong if not stronger than sz "A" Nylon, the breaking strength of which is around 3 pounds. The old metellic thread was recommended for use on trim and weaves only, Although if sz "A" was used there are lots of wraps per inch and with the addition of a thread epoxy or better yet permagloss the stretch from such a weak thread is reduced enough that you will achive a higher percentage of the threads true break strength as the threads unify, which would be sufficient for wraping a guide even with the old metallic stuff, the new HT thrad; no problem at all.

Thanks for the info. I thought I read somewhere that the older thread was a lot weaker, I just couldn't find it. I think I'll just use the older stuff for decorative wraps. Not worth taking a chance on weak guide wraps.

Stanley
sschaefer2@gt.rr.com

I've wrapped a lot of guides over the years with it and never had a proble,!! Keep in mind that some use silk for guides with no problem. I wouldn't hesitate to use it!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

In the RodMaker Volume 9 Issue 6 (page 10 - 13) Bill Stevens explains how to install guides without threads using Perma Gloss. According to Stevens the guide will fail before the Perma Gloss seperates from the rod (picture page 13) . So if you have the color thread you want to use, use it and cover it with 5-8 coats of Perma Gloss. Perma Gloss is a waterproof polyurethane adhesive and Flex Coat and the like are epoxy finishes. This would be a way to utilize your older supplies. Perma Gloss is a slow buildup process where the finished are high build up in 1 or 2 coats.

The metallics are, in general, significantly weaker than standard threads. They also have a nasty habit of the metallic sheath cracking or parting over the nylon core.

I'd use them for decorative purposes, butt wraps, trim threads, etc, but not so much for structural uses (i.e., as standalone guide wraps).

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Russ,

I hate to disagree with you but I have been using metallic thread on musky rods and Great Lakes trolling rods for years with no problems. Gudebrod lists the break point for Nylon and NCP A thread as 2.7 lbs and HT Metallic A as 3.b lbs. I think that the metallic sheath separating from the thread core is more of a friction problem from running through a tension device than a strength problem. I have never seen it separate when the tension is applied to the spool instead of the thread

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I'd have to agree with Mr Mike B (the "Grip" Hack, though he has never driven a Taxi) Most often its the tensioning devise, that tensions the thread instead of the spool that causes mettallic thread fraying troubles, and as I previously stated HT Metallic are almost as strong a sz "A" nylon and Mr Mike kindly supplied the corrsponding tensile spec's for. And as for permagloss, that makes the guides attachment with thread even stronger than mere thread epoxy, noting that the addition of thread epoxy adds approx 6 times the strength due to reducing the possibilbility of the thread stretching and letting the guide foot pull free. Epoxies or permagloss unify the threads and don't allow them to stretch as easily, thus allowing them to achieve a greater percentage of their over all strength before the guide does slip free. The guide either fails or slips free long before the thread come close to breaking.

I'm thinking I might have to try permagloss. Can you acheive a smooth finish like high build epoxy if you apply several coats? Sounds like very tough stuff. Doesn't crack or yellow over time, huh?

Stanley
sschaefer2@gt.rr.com

Permagloss' advantages are strength and durability; no yellowing.

If there's disadvantages it would be the multiple coats to get a smooth (guide wraps covered) surface and the fact that it isn't smooth/shiny when done like epoxies. It's (I think Tom said this?) kinda like an eggshell finish. TK posted a pic of a finished wrap; look under his name in the photos and see for yourself. This look is OK with me but I suppose it's not everyone's cup of tea??

Putter
Williston, ND

permagoss is moisture cured, getting mousture out of the air, it is a bit tricky to keep liquid once opened. There are several tricks to prevent this but I have not had much luck keeping it long term and had two bottles compeletly rock up despite adding BB's and allowing for no air spce at the top of the cap.