I had some feather inlays, the stripper wrap and the hook keeper wrap all CP'd and ready to finish. The CP had dried for 12 hours. I just put a finish coat of Duragloss on it. The main thread was Gudebrod A in a tan-gold color. There were some Gold Metallic thin trim wraps in all. The feather inlays were on a black underwrap. Early in the application a few dark, blotchey spots developed on a few of the tan-gold wraps. I feel that I thoroughly covered the wraps with CP. I wash my hands several times and dry them during my initial wrapping sessions. I hope the dark spots go away as it drys. I will keep you posted as to my results.

From the title of your message I suspected you had used cp before reading it. I had this same problem happen to me a few times before I took steps to completely eliminate the possibility of it ever ever happening to me again - I stopped using cp on threadwork, and select thread that does not need it. It is unlikely the dark areas will recover their color. Sorry to hear your work was damaged.

Lou

Steve , did you use nylon or NCP thread ? Sounds like a thread packing problem , I had this happen to me a couple of times , and I believe it was poor burnishing on my end ... Good luck , John

Got Fish ?

CP has never caused blotches - it doesn't have the ability to do something like that. Lack of it can cause blotches, however. Did you thin it? What was your proceedure here?

If you'll look at your thread under mild magnification I think you'll find that the dark areas are actually spaces between your thread where you didn't pack them together very well.

..........

Those blotchy spots your are observing can be quite troublesome. They were born when you selected the color of thread to be wrapped over a specific blank color. If you are working on a matte black or gloss black blank you will have trouble with whites, orange, light red, pink, tan and a host of other lighter shaded threads. The blotching is caused by the threads allowing the underlying blank to show through. When you wrap the threads and pack them you will think you have everything so tighly packed that nothing could shine through. When you apply the CP or for that matter finish you will see the effect you observe. When working with light colored thread is may be best to paint the area of the blank or do an underwrap where you are being bothered. The very best you can do starts with the selection of the thread for the blanks you are using and pack, pack, pack!

I visited Jesse Buky's shop in Virginia Beach and he showed my why he never has the problem you note. Black on Black on Black! Looks perfect no matter how bad the packing!

Gon Fishn

The blotches were still there when I checked it early this morning. Tom, I looked at it carefully with my magnifying glass this morning. I could not see where it wasn't packed tight. I'm using medium-firm tension on my wraps; I've put in better "daylight" lighting and gone to 200 magnifyer glasses. I now ( after marvelous tips and advice from so many willing experienced builders on this forum) can fairly easily put one, two or three wrap trim wraps into(not on top of) my main wrap. I think!?! I have figured out the problem. You'll note in my original post that I said that I wash my hands periodically during wrapping? This is because I do tend to sweat in the fingertips when I get nervous or excited. The blotches were on two wraps and were right at the end of the wrap where my thumb would hold the thread for 15-25 secs while I clipped the thread to do the pull through tie off. I do become very cautious, deliberate and anxious at that point and I press into the thread with snug pressure there. Next wrap I do, I'm going to try to remember to thoroughly dry my thumb brfore I do the tie off. I hope this is one more positive step on the ever present learning curve of better rod building. Thanks guys .... Steve

I doubt CP has anything to do with your problem. If that were the case, all of the great examples of thread art on the photo pages would be blotchy as they use CP. The key is to use CP correctly. Don't thin unless it is to thick to get a brush into and don't be stingy with it. Like others have said, under magnification, I think that you will find that the blotchy area has gaps in it. The key is not whether you use CP or not but whether when you are done packing, pack some more and some more, and then burnish!! Bill had a good idea though. On very light colors, it helps to paint the area under the wraps white when using real light threads

Steve, We must have been typing at the exact same time!!! Sounds like you figured it out!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2006 10:31AM by Mike Barkley.

A fly tying lamp should help you see the threads better.

Well, you may indeed have gotten something on the thread where your thumb was. Or... you didn't get the CP past the edge to protect the finish from getting in there. Just something else to consider. You didn't mention if you thinned your CP and if so, by how much. CP contains very little solids to begin with and by thinning it you only reduce that figure even more. Eventually, all you're really doing is putting water on your threads and that, we know, won't seal your wraps.

...............

I can only speak for situations using Madeira, and closed decorative wraps where inconsistant tension, gaps, light colored thread, and blank exposure all play a roll. I played around with different CP's because of this "blotching" problem, even cut away wraps I spent hours on just to see how much thread penetration I had. I found that if I thinned the CP on the first coat (Very thick Gudebrod 811 with 20% 'ish denatured) with a flood coat and on the second coat used a thinned coat at 5-10%, I get enough penetration and enough sealant or "solids" on the threads to help eliminate the problems I have with blotching. With Flex Coat I thin the first coat about 5%, and the second full strength....That "goldenrod" thread you use is a tough nut to crack as far as bleed and blotching go in my opinion.

I will add these comments for you to think over. Gudebrod nylon thread is a twisted product. It is not as uniform as you may think. Even if you pack it and burnish it you may have an area of thread that is tightly twisted and and area that is less twisted. When you wrap it, it may be inconsistant and when applying your version of CP you may get uneven penetration. I use a fly bobbin when wrapping those light colors. That allows me to twist the thread tighter - more evenly, to contol the blotchy result. Also if your thread system uses a sewing type tensioner you may actually be compressing the twisted product before you even get it onto the blank. I have seen the result of this and it sometiwmes takes the twist out of the nylon as it is tensioned. Lastly I have had some gudebrod thread that was scuffed in the process of winding it onto a spool. The scrapped surface of the thread absorbed the CP and the finish unevenly, resulting in a blochy appearance. Looking at your work under magnification will help reveal these issues prior to finishing.
Regards,
Kenneth Prager

could the blotchey spots be from flame to close i have done that in the past it puts a black swirlish mark . damn those bubbles

daniel minsker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> could the blotchey spots be from flame to close
> i have done that in the past it puts a black
> swirlish mark . damn those bubbles


And don't eat fried chicken for dinner, and work on the rod without washing up :-)