Please excuse my ignorance, this is all new to me. I read Tom's book and also the articles in the Library part of this site. I have (I think) a decent grasp of guide sizing and placement... but since I am new and don't have an inventory of guides to experiment for optimum size & performance, how do I figure out what sizes and heights to order in advance? (or must I stock an inventory of guides for this?)

I don't mind buying a few extras since I'll likely build more than one spinning rod but I can't afford to buy enough to cover all the possible sizes/quantities to get started.

My first rod is going to be a 6'6" spinning rod, rated 8-15 line, 3/16-5/8 oz, fast action. I plan on using a shimano spinning reel in the 4000 size with 12 lb test line.

With the above info is it possible for any of you to give me an idea of what sizes & quantities of guides to order? I want to use Fuji SiC with Ti. frames. Also, does a 7mm choke (and remaining) guides sound right with this set up?

Thank you for any insight!

-Keith

At those prices for Fuji Concept SiC rings with Titanium frames, it may be cheaper in the long run to simply purchase a full inventory of ALCONITE-ring Fuji CONCEPT Guides in the less expensive BYAG Series, and use them for your sizing and placement purposes during your guide layout and mock-up casting. Buy at least one of each size in the series, PLUS buy at least 2 more of each of the smaller sizes 10-8-7 MM. These smaller guides will be used in multiple fashion for the running guides. Some builders like to use the Fuji single-leg, single-foot FLY guide B/CLAG or the Fuji two-leg, single-foot CASTING B/CUNAG series for these smaller-sized running guides, instead of the higher framed BYAG (Y-frame) guides.

[All "J"-series guides are CONCEPT style, higher framed than their HARDLOY counterparts, and have ALCONITE RINGS, ... BUT not all "J" designations are "YYY"-framed guides. Some "J"s are casting or fly guides. The "J" designation simply means higher frame with Alconite ring.]

The Fuji Alconite-ring BYAG or CYAG Series have exactly the same guide frame, with respect to frame shape, heel and ring angle, and height of the ring off the blank, and almost exactly the same ring dimensions (OD, ID and thickness, within a millimeter or less), as the SiC-ring Titanium-frame TYSG Series. This is also true of the B/CUNAG or B/CLAG Alconite series with respect to the SiC-Ti TUNSG or TLSG series, respectively.

Since the cost of one set of guides from the TYSG series (~$80) is about 4 times the price of a set of guides in the Alconite series (~$20), you can easily justify the investment for the mock-up Alconites. The difference in price between a 30mm ($41) and a 20mm ($21) TYSG is $20 right up front. The Alconite mock-up set will immediately pay for itself in money saved AND time saved (from not having to to order parts a third time).

So, order a set of Alconites. Size & place the guide layout. Then place a second order for the TYSG guides that you need, based on your Alconite mock-up. And wait. You will probably save at least $20 this way.

And this way, you won't feel like you are stuck with 2 or 3 extra SiC-Ti guides worth a total of ~ $30 sitting around doing nothing. Crying out to you, "Complete the set and build ANOTHER rod with US. DON'T LEAVE US HERE, all by our selves!! We're too good to be kept in a box. Take us out and let us SHOW you what we can do !!" ... You really know it's bad when that is the last thing on your mind when you go to sleep. Seek Professional help right away. ... Come here to the RBO Forum & PhotoGallery, and get fresh ideas for that next project ! -LOL-!!!

'Hope that helps. -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2005 05:15PM by Cliff Hall.

Personally, I would definately go with the Alconites unless someone with deep pockets was paying the bill!!! I have built a fair number of rods the same as the one you are building, My usual guide setup is 25 12 8 BYAG's and 6 BLAG's(7's would be fine.) the rest of the way. I would order a 10 BYAG and extra BLAG's and play with the configuration. Sometimes 20 10 8 BYG works better, depending on the reel.

IMO Alconites are a very fine guide and give up VERY little to the much higher priced models. There is a point where you have to consider performance versus cost and decide if it is justified. Granted, I am not a great angler but I have cast with both (SIC's also) and was unable to tell any difference, nor could the much better anglers with me who also tried them



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

"My first rod is going to be a 6'6" spinning rod, rated 8-15 line, 3/16-5/8 oz, fast action. I plan on using a Shimano spinning reel in the 4000 size with 12 lb test line."

Here’s a guesstimate of what you may wind up with:

Using FUJI Concept Y-frame guides –
25mm, 20-16mm, 16-12mm, 10-8mm, then (2 or 3) 8mm or 7mm.
Probably 7 or 8 guides total for this 6’6” fast taper, medium power rod blank.

Overall Rod Length: 78 inches
Position of Reel Spool: 12 inches up from the Butt CAP
Distance from the Reel Spool to the ROD TIP: (78” – 12”) = 66 inches

Distance from the Reel Spool to the BUTT GUIDE: ~ 22 inches

Distance from the Rod TIP to the BUTT Guide: (66” – 22”) = 44 inches

I will enumerate the line guides in REVERSE ORDER for my purposes herein, because I don’t know how many line guides the rod will take:
#1 .......... #2 .......... #3 .......... #4 ........... #5 – 6 – 7
25mm, 20-16mm, 16-12mm, 10-8mm, then (2 or 3) 8mm or 7mm.

# 1 (BUTT) Guide: At 44” from the TIP-TOP

# 2 Tamer: At 10” from the BUTT guide. At 34” from the Tip-Top.

# 3 Tamer: At 8” from the previous guide. At 26” from the Tip-Top

[Intersect Point]

# 4 Runner: At 6” from the previous guide. At 20” from the Tip-Top

# 5 Runner: At 5” from the previous guide. At 15” from the Tip-Top

# 6 Runner: At 5” from the previous guide. At 10” from the Tip-Top

# 7 Runner: At 5” from the previous guide. At 5” from the Tip-Top

TIP-TOP: Remember to keep your overall MASS low.
Ring Size in MM: (25, 16, 12, 8-7-7-7 +Tip-Top)

By using an approach for you that considers all these factors and your own flex-loading and casting tests, you will get a conspiracy of constraints that helps you convergence on a really sweet set of guides well-placed on your new rod. The solution may not be unique for that rod, but it will have been arrived at by a method that makes sense to you and helps you, the next time, not to have to re-invent the wheel every time you plan a new project. There are differences between rods and builders, but the SIZES of the guides themselves LIMIT our selections and force a conspiracy of similarity in our final guide layouts.

IMO, -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2005 05:25PM by Cliff Hall.

Great info, I really do appreciate it!! I can see that I'lllearn a LOT hanging out here!!

Thanks again,

-keith