Ask him how he does it ?

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Putter
Williston, ND

One thing we don't do this site is flame anyone. I don't think anyone really got flamed here, but let's not let things get out of hand. There is a ton of these type products on the market and even more ways to use them. I suspect that both Steve and Randy are stating the facts as they know them from their own personal experience, different as they may be.

I have used acrylic pigments and they worked fine for me, although I was a bit nervous upon first use of them. I did find that the epoxy became a bit "gummy" or something - just an odd texture. It worried me a bit, but did set up and looks quite good. However, given the chance to find the color that I wanted in either Testors enamel pigment or TAP pigment, that would be my choice on the next go around.


.............

I'm still miffed over the drubbing I took on my 3rd time around with the acrylics at Steve's suggestion last May. Reading my posts, I can see that this bled through onto the screen, and I won't try and softshoe that now. I was (and am) upset about that ordeal.

When I marble something, the amount of pigment brought to the canvas has to be controlled. With the acrylics getting all gooey, it just can't be done like I need it to be done. The stringy, gooey stuff hanging 6 inches from the end of my dental pick each time I brought it up to the pens I was practicing on just couldn't be contolled and the marbling showed it afterwards. Not up to snuff at all.

About all that I can say on this subject is that there are a lot better pigments for marbling than acrylics.

Steve: Yeah, I'm mad, but I'll get over it!!

Putter
Williston, ND

All I can say is..... thanks for this post!

I was at a high end artist supply store recently looking at a HUGE wall of displayed "pigments"Liquitex acryllics were one of the many choices. (I wished it was all thread though.) I didn't know what to get, but new I wanted something other than the leftover Testors from a five year olds art project I have at home, half of which I can't get the cap off without a hammer, heat, and pliers!! I left the store empty handed, not knowing what would work the best.

Beause of this post....I have better information on any future pigment purchases I may do in the future.....

Thanks

Liquitex is what I used (I think that was it - I'll look at the bottle tomorrow). It worked, but it was funky. I had some foreboding thoughts when I bought it because what I read on the label didn't sound exactly like it would be compatible with the epoxy. But, they had the color I wanted so I went ahead with it.

I think Randy is probably a bit more demanding that most when it comes to marbling. Like many, I get a general idea of what I'd like to have and then start working and hoping. Usually, the end result is close, but can also be a surprise. I tend to see Randy as getting a pattern in his head and then acutally manipulating the colored epoxy expertly enough so that what his mind sees, his hands are able to create.

With that in mind, I have no trouble believing that he couldn't possibly get good results with the acrylic stuff. But for many of us, who marble on a wing and prayer, it will work and will set up.

...................

Lord, I get a lot of surprises, too. It's not really easy to, well, re-create or nearly duplicate, a favored color and pattern. Lots of variables that affect it. But with a certain effect in mind and a bit of experience, it comes out pretty much like wanted in the end.

That's one of the reasons I've experimented with so many different pigments and also why I'll continue to experiment with them. Most any acrylic painter's color such as Liquitex can be had in an oil based artist's paint, also. I'm sure not EVERY one exactly, but close enough and that's all that counts when it's getting blended and marbled. Nearly every time I go to a store such as Jo Ann's or Hancock's I come home with several new ones to toy with. My ink pen collection is growing!!

Putter
Williston, ND

I'm not a marbler (is that how you spell it?). I enjoy looking at it, I appreciate the artistry in it and don't look down on it at all, but it's just not what I do.

But I have to say that across the board, what works for one, does not work for another. Many times I've seen people make mention of how some things simply do not work, or are just plain wrong, even though I've been doing them for a long time. Sometimes I see new ways to do stuff that I finally get around to trying and lo and behold, they work for me. Sometimes I don't. I'm the first to say that how I do things may not be the best way, but how I do things is what works for me.

What was an eye opener for me was simply trying a different finish. After using flex coat for 20 some years, I gave LS supreme a shot, based on the raves I saw in here. I can't tell you how many rods I built with this stuff that I stripped because of the waves and bubbles. After many arguments with LS, (I have a problem where I take things personal with inanimate objects) I finally backed down and let the LS tell me what it wanted to do, rather than me trying to make it do stuff it wasn't supposed to. In the blink of an eye, I had good finish work with this stuff. It was simply a matter of figuring out how to use it.

What works for one, may not neccessarily work for another. If someone claims to have good luck doing something, they are not neccessarily wrong. There are more than one way to build a good rod.

Here is the Tap plastics site of tints [www.tapplastics.com];



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2005 06:45AM by bill boettcher.

I checked my bottle and it's actually "CREATEX." On the side it says, "acrylic water based paint." I needed a pearl color, they had it, I bought it. Again, it made the epoxy a bit funky - sort of gooey and slimy and I was a bit concerned. But, in the end it set fine and the epoxy appears to be nice and hard. I've fished the rod and things seem to be holding up (I used it on all the guide wraps).

Still, if I had to do it again, I'd look for something from TAP or in a Testors Enamel in a pearl color.

...........................

Tom - When it comes to pearl colors, Pearl-Ex powders work well for me. Pricey, but it goes a long way.

Disclaimer: The writer takes no responsibility, inferred or otherwise, for any loss associated with any actions of any persons, real or imaginary, or from North Dakota, South Carolina, or otherwise as it relates to the above opinion. Any such actions or said losses shall be restricted from assignment to the writer under penalty of fines up to a maximum of two tubes of acrylic paint per complaint.

Way to go Steve!!! CYA!!

I still wanna know what you do to get it to work? Everyone else seems to not like the Acrylics as much as they do everything else?

Steve will have to chime in on what he did, if anything special. I didn't do anything special, just put several drops of the acrylic into the epoxy and went about my business. But it did more than just color the epoxy - it changed the consistency considerably. But, it set up and cured fine.

If I can get the same pearl color from a pigment powder, I'll certainly look into it. I think we always take a chance when we introduce other products/solvents into our epoxies. Sooner or later, we all get bit.

......................

Billy - I honestly do not know what the difference is between what I do and what others do. I've only been doing what I read other people have been doing. I did not have what I would call 'snottyness' when I first started using it. It did get a bit stringey on me once three times in a row about a month ago, and after that it was fine again. As luck would have it is was 'stringey' again on me just last night. Its very sporadic. Of course my sample size is probably small compared to others...only 50 or so applications using the acrylic, some are on rods others are on just 'test' pieces but still none smaller than a 4" butt section. I dont use the acrylic all the time, only when I feel like it. I like to keep doing different things. The only thing that really jumped out at me the time that it was 'snotty' or 'stringey' was that it was a little more humid than usual; and last night it rained and I had the window open...moisture in the air maybe? I'm limited at this time to working in an area in the unfinished basement, smack dab where I dont want it in front of a basement window, and where its pretty hot and humid most of the time here in massachusetts. Combine that with the fact that I'm still relatively new to all of this compared to you guys (albeit I think I've picked up pretty good, with a quite few fairly nice rods made in a relatively short amount of time) and I'm not using anything very precise to measure things out, and my mixing is not as good as it probably should be, then I've got a lot of possible variables (possible causes) to this defect. Also another possible variable is I'm using the cabelas finish which I'm told is flexcoat repackaged - but it could be anywhere from 4 to 7 years old I dont know since I inhertited it with all this rod building stuff from by bro who passed on. I'm really working to understand and reduce the variation so that I have better control (reduce the 'wing and prayer' methods as Tom might say) over the outcome, and in the process I will hopefully find what the difference is and not inadvertently eliminate it. I hope this helps.

Disclaimer: The writer takes no responsibility, inferred or otherwise, for any loss associated with any actions of any persons, real or imaginary, or from North Dakota, South Carolina, or otherwise as it relates to the above opinion. Any such actions or said losses shall be restricted from assignment to the writer under penalty of fines up to a maximum of two tubes of acrylic paint per complaint.