I have been jumping around this forum and another,in the very recent past, in an effort to find the info and how to explanations of rod building.

I don't have a desire to take on a new hobby,my goal at the outset was to just convert a bait caster to spinning. I learned very quickly that there was more to this than just taking a guide off the top of the rod and securing it in turn to the underside. I started asking questions and reading articles in the library and looking at terms in the glossary. In reading the articles it was confusing to me because of my lack of understanding of the terms used and the same held true for the answers given to questions. This all became intimidating to say the least and truthfully kind of discouraging right out of the chute.The questions I asked were certainly because I didn't know the answer,most of the responces were direct and to the point while others had a read between the lines (do your homework first) and others led to disagreements between responders which led me, the new guy who didn't know, to think ,"now whos right and whats right"

I'm not knocking the forum or its members but I think for the new rod buider wanabees this is not the place to find up front immediate answers for the beginner. I would think the intermediate builders would oft times feel somewhat intimidated as well,certainly those who desire to move into this endeavor and are willing to spend many hours of research,study and lurking on different forums have a good starting point here as it is intended. A lessor technical and greater teaching/learning type forum would be more advantageous to the beginner and
I think have a greater following as well. This might even be a new consideration for conference entitled "For the Beginner"on this forum in the future.

I will complete my goal of getting this rod in question converted , it may not be the best of jobs or the best choice of materials and methods but it gave me something to do in my days of retirement.

I truely admire some if not most of the work I've seen in the photo galleries and it amazes me how you have been able to do this. It is an art form that releases creative thinking and also the ability to put your thoughts into motion via your hands and of course mechanical means of many styles.

Good luck guys in your rod building,,,,I wish I were younger ,I'd give it a go but I'll be 70 on the next go around and don't want to get involved in a new hobby as I stated earlier.

Have a good weekend and many happy days in your quests

dick

You certainly didn't seem intimidated when you were asking a ton of questions. Nothing wrong with asking a lot of questions, but you cannot expect people to answer each and every one of them to infinite detail. IT seemed to me you wanted the internet to build the rod for you, and you didn't want to do any of teh research or trial & error on your own. "Read between the lines" - I think people went way out of their way answerring your questions, but asking questions over and over and over that have been addressed on several occasions on teh board (SEARCH feature) and are in every rod building book, video & DVD, and on various internet sites - YES!!! you should have to read between the lines & do some of the homework on your own.

imo.

Hi Dick,
First, I am sorry to here that you felt somewhat intimidated in your search for answers from rod builders on this board.
This forum was started to help people like yourself and anyone who wants to get started into or get better at building
custom fishing rods and also have a place to exchange ideas and opinions.

Yes, I can see where a fresh begginner might find it difficult to communicate what it is they are trying to accomplish
and also understand some answers recieved. Same with most other specialty crafts & hobbies. Gotta speak the lingo!

Different opinions leads to discussion and discussion leads to better understanding. Confusing for begginners though
not knowing yet what makes sence!

Second, let me help you with the project you are working on. Question: Does the bait casting rod have a trigger on the reel seat?

If so, then converting the rod into a spinning outfit means either cutting, grinding, removing the trigger so when you flip the rod
over the grip will be comfortable in the hand. That is if you don't plan to remove/replace the grips and reel seat if you don't have to.

1 ) If no trigger, there really is no need to remove/replace the handle set.
2 ) Removed the casting guides by cutting the wrapping threads at the tops of the guide feet and peel away the thread along
with the epoxy finnish.
3 ) Use a plastic dish scrubber & warm water to remove any epoxy still remaining on the rod blank.
4 ) Apply heat to the tip guide and try to turn & remove it. If it comes off, it was affixed with hot glue if not apply a bit more heat and
try again. ( heat helps soften the epoxy glue ) Some factorys use hot glue some use some other glue like 5min epoxy. If you can't
get it off then you are forced to leave it in place or of course cut it off. ( it may not match the spinning guides you choose but if the tip is
not damaged it will work just fine )
5 ) Obtain a set of single foot spinning guides w/matching tip sizes #25 to #7 with 1 guide per ft. of total rod length.
( it's easyist to take the rod to tackle shop or local componant / repair shop and they can help you pick out the best guide set
for your needs) They can also show you how to prep the feet for wrapping if needed. Also, if you were forced to cut the old
tip off they can size the blank for the correct tip size and even glue it on for you.
Note: If you do not have a rod repair place in your area several sponcors to the left can help you if you call them.
6 ) If using a new tip guide, affix it to the blank with hot glue or 5 min. epoxy and align with the reel seat.
7) twist a bunch of small rubber bands onto the rod.
8) Starting at about 4 in. from the tip, affix the smallest guide to the rod with one of the rubber bands.
9) Affix the rest of the guides with rubberbands spacing them each 1/2 in farther from the previous until the last two and space them
about 1 in. farther instead of 1/2 in.
10) Wrap guides to rod blank
11) apply finnish to wraps

Of course this is a very brief tutorial and I assume you have aquired some type of booklet or instructions on how to wrap guides onto
a fishing rod. As you can see, all there is to completing your project is to simply remove the casting guides and replace with spinning
guides. You can put as little, or as much, into that endevor as you wish. If you are planning to replace the handle assembly there is
not much more to it. The technical stuff about guide placment, frame types & sizes, ring materials ect. ain't no big deal in this case.
Just get some guides and HAVE FUN!!

Please don't be offended if I have over simplified this post. My wish is only to help if I can without all of the variables that obviously
your project does not need.
Please call me on the phone if you have any questions or get stuck and need a fix.
916-422-5531

P.S. My dad is almost 70 yrs. young and since I showed him how to build rods he has another habit he can't break so be careful!
You may end up with another hobby after all!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Hey Billy,
I know you responed to Dick's postings and tried to answer his questions.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but did you have to bash him
like that? Ca'mon take a chill pill !! Dick sure was NOT insulting IMO !

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Dick
The easy thing to do would be to look around for a kit. You can get a kit with every thing needed to do the one rod. Even instructions.
I would keep that rod -- you may want to try bait casting later on, and if you keep it you will have it to play with later. If you have to take the handle and seat off that one, it is a little bit of a pain.

Dick Laxton, Please allow me to dissagree wit your opinion of this forum as a tool for getting started at rod buildin for people of any age. There is a very handy glossery to help with unfamiliar terms.
I have found the board members to be beyond helpfull and more patient than would normally be expected for a new commer in this hobby. I can't imagine age or the number of rods one wishes to build being an issue. I blundered in here wishing to build a lightweight fly blank spinning hybrid. The members here have been more than helpfull getting me started in the right direction, and a big thank you to all who have helped so far.
I have yet to build this specialty rod, but have been getting the supplies together for this winter.
If you choose to leave, please don't blame it on the forum of members that tried to help you . Wish you well, Mike

Dick,
I second Bill B.'s suggestion to buy a kit instead of rebuilding the casting rod. By the time you add
up the cost of rebuilding the casting rod you could have purchased a new kit with almost everything
included ( some kits even come with color preserver and finnish! ) If your not going to use the casting
rod ever again take a kid fishing and give it to them!

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!

Note: Neal's Fishing on the left had some spinning kits for less than $30.00 (can't buy a good new rod for that at most places)

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Billy,
I gotta agree with Ray. I think you were a little hard on Dick. If you thought his questions were getting overbearing, you certainly didn't have to reply to them. I'm a fairly new rod builder, so I can remember my first rod very well and all the questions I asked! I think the whole problem came from the fact that Dick had no interest in learning the craft of rod building, he just wanted to re-fit one of his rods. So he really had no interest in putting in the time and research normally required. I can understand where he's coming from. I can also sympathize with your point of view. At times when I saw Dick's posts I would think, "Geez, this guy needs to do some of his own research!". But from his point of view he just wanted to fix that one rod and be done with it.
Also, Dick if you read this post there are a few things you need to understand. Many of the guys on this board have spent HUNDREDS of hours and considerable amounts of cash learning and researching their craft. So when someone such as yourself wants all the answers without any research of your own, you can expect that you are going to raise some hackles!
I just don't want anyone to think that this board is an un-friendly place to visit. On the contrary, Billy and all the others on this board bend over backwards on a daily basis to help each other. I know, because I have been the beneficiary many times! If it wasn't for this board, I would not be at the point that I am in rodbuilding. (I would also have quite a few UGLY looking rods!!)
Tom, if you read this post, I think part of the problem is that users of this board (myself included) don't use the search feature enough. Is there any way to highlight or emphasize this feature so that the simpler questions don't get asked time and time again?(flashing banner?) I know you've probably tried, but I just had to ask.
That's all I got. Gotta go fishin'.

Bill

Billy may be a little hard at times -- but he is King ??? LOL

Dick,

I think you're overlooking many things here - first, between the FAQs page and the Glossary Page, most of the terms, their meanings and many of the basic steps required in rod building are fully covered. The FAQs page was installed so that the answers to most of the more common questions could be located there without anyone having to ask and then wait for an answer.

Next, regardless of what many would like to believe, the best rod building information is not going to be found on any message forum. Not this one, not any other one. That's not their purpose. Beginners need to arm themselves with sound and basic information such as that found in the books dealing with basic rod building. As helpful as messarge forums are, they will never substitute for the kind of in-depth information you'll get from a book text, or perhaps even an instructional DVD. I don't know what type, if any, background information you've obtained, but that needs to serve as your bedrock for beginning, and this or any other forum as the means to get those last tidbits of info that you might still be having problems with.

Many of the articles in the library came from RodMaker Magazine. RodMaker does, in fact, have a beginners column in each issue, but the bulk of the aticles are not aimed at beginning rod building - the craft is awash in basic rod building books and thus the topic doesn't need a lot of redundant information. Instead, the magazine articles are aimed at those who have gotten a bit more deeply involved in the craft and want more than most books or internet forums can offer.

In terms of helpful forums, I can't imagine any forum or forum users being as helpful as those on this one are. And certainly none have the array of features that this one has. You did receive answers to all your questions, from a variety of builders. Granted, some might have been over your head at this point, but keep in mind the people responding here come from all walks of life and are at varioius levels of rod building. A wide variety of responses and levels of information should be expected.

Finally, what did it cost you to utilize this site? Or any other I might add. I'm not going to be hard on you, I know you're just a little frustrated right now, but I don't thnk you've given enough consideration to the fact that any and all the info you received here was obtained free of charge. Sure it would be nice to have a section devoted to basic rod building techniques and I do have something in the works along those lines. The biggest problem is always - who is going to pay for it? Everytime I add another page here, another feature, etc., I have to ante up the money for it.

Still, I think if you'll hang around a bit longer you'll get past the frustration and really start to enjoy rod building. I have to believe that all of us got stuck at some point with some aspect of rod building that we just couldn't get quite right, or didn't understand as well as we hoped. But with time and patience we move past those sticking points and one day look back and think, "That was really pretty easy after all." You crawl before you walk. Stay at it and you'll be walking through the hobby before you know it.

........

Dick if you have been on enough internet rod building forums one thing should be pretty obvious by now. And that is that this one is the MOST friendly and MOST helpful of them all. In at least some of them, your questions would have gotten you flamed or insulted or completely run off by the rod building hobnobs who think they know it all and are too busy to bother with a beginner. Or maybe even worse, you would have just gotten some very bad info that would have caused you problems and maybe caused you to just give up on rod building totally.

This site must get about 100 message posts per day. Most get 3 or 4 at best. So it should be obvious that most builders come here because it\'s the best, friendliest and most helpful rod building forum going. I\'m not knocking a few of the others that I visit and think they\'re good to. Most notably the allcoast and stiperonline sites. But IMO you can take the rest and put them in a glad bag and toss them for all there worth. One even charges you a yearly fee to access any of it informational sections. You can do that on this one here for free. And this one has more and better info to boot!

One last thing, where do you live? If you are serious about learning rod building I\'d tell you to beg, borrow or steal your way to the big rod building show in Charlotte NC next February. There isn\'t anything else like it and you can pick these people\'s brains in person. Every single one will be more than happy to work with you on understanding anything you want to know from basic to advanced. Hope you can make it.

[www.tackleworks.org] Check out this site and maybe you can find a builder near you who can help

I saw your post on converting the rod thing and how to set up the guides. I thought Tom gave you a pretty simple and no nonsense answer on how to do it. You responded as if you understood and were going to do it. What then followed was just the usual guys expounding on a topic they like to kick around. That happens here. You ask a question, get a good answer, and then some other guys might continue on with more info between themselves. Probably more than you want to know, but it's better to have too much info than too little. You can take what you need and leave the rest. I'd rather have more answers than fewer. I like to have plenty of options!

Dick,
Please do not give up on this site, I am almost your age and learned this craft almost 30 years ago. There was no web site and only a couple of books to learn with. The materials and supplies were few and far between and the types and quality of materials were even more so. I was lucky because a good rod builder took me under his wing and got me off to a good start. This site does the same thing for anyone who will the time and effort to try and it does not cost a penny to ask any questions you desire.
Also remember that this is a craft that is not set in stone. Things are constanly moving and improving. There is no set one way to do most of the methods we employ. We all favor our own methods but how many times have you read here if it works for you try it. Add to this that we are from all sections of the world and you are bound to have divergence of opinions. That does not mean that any one is wrong but only that we all build in our own style.
I do not agree with everyone or everything people on this site say but even at my age I have learned more from this site than any where else on the internet. I will continue to use this source as long as I can and hope maybe I can offer a bit of advise from time to time
Finally I say try what works for you use it and then try to improve on it.
Sam Fox
Foxrods

Well, I will make my second post. I got interested in rod building a few months ago, when I decided to refurbish an old Fenwick Worm rod from the early '70s. Ended up deciding to investigate the possibilities of getting into the business. I travel the SE on my normal industrial sales job, and deal with a lot of customers who fish, so I may have an opportunity to ease into a business that will allow me to eventually retire from my normal job.
Still not sure if that is going to be feasible, but I have learned a tremendous amount from just a couple of sources. First, I bought Tom's book. Then, I looked at all the free tutorials on the various sponsors' site. But, most of all, I learned from this site. I have scanned over half the pages here. This has taken a long time, but have done it in my spare time when I am sitting in a hotel in some small town. It is unbelieveable how much info is actually here.
I have now refurbished several of my old rods, and actually built three rods which I have sold to to fellow worker for material cost. I can sell all I want at this price level! The next trick is going to be to sell some at a profit. So far, though, I am learning everytime I build one, and this is time wll spent.
Next, I will subscribe to the magazine, and will certainly visit the upcoming show. I am in Charlote every other week, and will tie this in to a normal trip, so my incremental cost will be very low.
Thanks to all of you for your knowledgeable input here. As I continue in this field, I will probably be asking some questions myself.
As an addendum - I really haven't had any of the epoxy problems, or any other big problems, that I have seen discussed here. (So far - knock on wood!) This is probably because I have read a lot here, and always read the instructions that come with the products.
Another addendum - I have practiced wrapping, both guide and butt wrap, on old arrow shafts. I have several that are banged up too much to shoot, but work well for this purpose.
Thanks
Steve Broadwell

everyone must keep in mind dick said he had no interest in starting a new hobby. there are other sites which would have helped him with just the basic, "insert tab a into slot b" instruction. yet it surprises me he didn't simply hire a rodbuilder to do the repair/revamp in the first place. plenty of great pros on this board, not to mention tackleworks' references.

the "beginner's corner" idea is a good one. but the information is all here. as others have said, it takes just a little effort to find it and no matter how the search function is listed at this site, there will be countless posters who either don't see it or ignore it it, regardless how it's designed. unlessssssssss of course, that search function becomes the home page, with no way to go around it, forcing the visitor to either start a search or click on a button "got all the answers, thanks, just cruising today" but even that wouldn't be a guarantee ;-)

i hope it never degrades, but at this point in my experiences, this site is one of the best if not the best. the wide range of discussion, from the simple to the theoretical, the lack of flames, the "civil" discourse. the truly constructive criticism. it would be awful if people uniformly applauded what i might consider somewhat lackluster, pedestrian and amatuerish efforts. the high quality of talent forces me to challenge myself, even if i'll never do what some do wonderfully here.

i went back and checked out some of dick's questions. (chuckling) that cliff! i can see how some stuff might go over and beyond what's been asked. good luck dick. i hope you succeed with that rod. and if the bug happens to bite you when you're not looking, keep this site bookmarked for future reference.

eric
fresno, ca.

I would say after the basics its really up to the builder one what he wants to do or how he wants to do it. There seems to be so many disagreements or things than can be done so many ways. I felt the same when I built my first rod. Asked alot of questions here, got alot of different answers. I just did what worked best or what I thought worked best and everything came out great. I guess in rod buiding there is no one perfect way to do everything. There is many
I only wanted to build one rod to use for striper fishing, and now a month later I have made 5 more. Lots of fish caught and no problems. And I really just know the basics. Good luck with your rod.

There are some aspects of rod building which are absolute - for instance, surface prep before bonding is corrent when done one particular way (it may work other ways, to some extent, but for the strongest bond, there is only one way that is correct). There are other aspects of rod building which are indeed subjective. The nice thing about getting so many replies is that in those areas you can pick and choose the information that seems reasonable to you and go with that method. You can't have too much information nor too many options. Although I suppose it can be confusing to a beginner sometimes.

............

Dick, Keep it simple and give it a go someday. Wrapping a rod can be somewhat relaxing.

The question the other day "new concept guides...ooops"(new concept set up) is just one of those topics that brings out great argument....always will I guess. (just take a look at the activity it generated..somewhat political...but healthy nonetheless)

Don't base your decision not to start a new hobby at 70, on what you see and hear on any open forum.

I demand that "age" be totally removed from the context of furthur posts on this thread. A class action age descrimination law suit will be filed, with the appropriate court, on behalf of all us old ones that did start at an age older than the originator of this thread. This stuff is what is keeping a lot of us nimble of hand, sane and out of the dark cold ground! Golf, ping pong, gin rummy, telling truthful stories, racing model airplanes, one pocket, nine ball and yes even cooking all have to take a back seat to designing rods, wrapping thread, finishing rods and cork and sniffing solvents. It don't get no better than this!

Can I get a few seconds from the Texas Coast - I will include you in the litigation on a pro bono basis.

Gon Fishn