Hi,

Latest issue of Rod Maker arrived today in perfect condition. The mail man rang the bell and alerted me to its arrival. He subscribes also.

I have considered going to way of adult education as a means of teaching this subject and also earning a few $$$$$. To really be hands on (epoxying etc.) presents problems.

I think the blank and component industry is the group to accomplish this task. After all they would be profiting from the sales of blanks, components and supplies.

They should at least be the sponsers and backers($$$).

Capt Neil

Neil;
Lerned my Basic rodbuilding at the local Vo-Tech, 20 hr course one night a week.op I think it was a well taught course. Now I learn here at the feet of the Pro's.
When starting the course we were given a list of material needed and also suppliers, also given choice of buying from instructor at a reasonable price freshwater blank,seat, grips, guides and top. also small flex-coat kit

still have that rod!

Interesting commentary from RodMaker's Final Thought's Column by Tom Kirkman about some food for thought about Rod Building School's.
As Tom pointed out that Rod Building is a trade to some, but actually could better be called a craft. As there appears to be greater interest with this craft, as there is great interest in many other crafts and a good example may be something like Quilting. Some make a living at it, yet the intricacies of the skills and techniques involved easily lead to an environment where learning with an instructor can be an essential step in progressing the craft.

Having said that, I don't think a sort of 'Rod Building College' is necessarily practical, but the 'concept' in some form of apprenticeship programs or division or certain aspects within rod building skill achievment may be something to pursue which perhaps some like minded individuals could seriously attempt to pursue.

I don't know if the route to go with associating specifically the manufacturers is the way to go. Many could foresee this with just another type of buying club situation, but support financially needs to seriously be looked at for any program development in an acedemic sense. What already is available with beginning rod building classes and attatchment to various vendors or instructors making available product seems to be the norm and brings in the 'sales'. In a practical sense, I suppose this makes things possible.
Perhaps in a more idealistic sense, it would be nice to have an independent or professionally operated 'school' with a non-commercially attatched development. It's a difficult road that would be pursued no doubt, but may give some better outlook as to the broader outlook on the various aspects with learning custom rod building. The more 'weekend' type of local rodbuilding classes are more of an overview method of learning the basics leading to the building of a custom rod. The 'school' of say 'higher learning' in rod building is more of what I think to be regarded in the context of what Tom's commentary could be referring to. This would probably best serve the market of potential candidates by not aligning with a specific commercial enterprise and being more oriented toward skill and technique development rather than product promotion.
I know the problem is that it may be difficult to justify with any financial committments from individuals to support this, and that is more likely what would make this notion a reality or not. It likely wouldn't be for everyone, so the more affordable weekend type of apprenticeships may the more the direction to take?
Perhaps there is someone outside the attatchment with manufacturers to serioulsly consider a 'school' idea, but it's not foreseeable that this could happen.

Just some thoughts.

Rich Garbowski

Many craft type schools are operated across the US. There are full time colleges and trade schools which teach woodworking, as one example, to anyone interested. I just finished an interesting article in the last issue of Fine Woodworking which spoke of a school that teaches hands on one-week classes year round, in almost any discipline of woodworking that one would care to learn.

Another idea I have had, which I think would bust the custom rod building market wide open, regards a sort of slide show presentation on the making of custom rods. You would have a set of slides showing the making of a custom rod. It would be accompanied by a narrative which would allow those who do not fancy themselves good public speakers to simply read the narrative for each slide. Obviously, they could ad lib if they wished, but the idea is to make it easy for anyone to give the presentation, to any group, club or event.

A single person could give the presentation to any number of people at one sitting. Unlike an actual hands-on rod building class where you are limited by the number of instructors and the various tasks that must be performed, this type presentation could be given to 5 or 500 people, all with just the one narrator/presenter.

The idea would be to spread the word about custom rods to thousands of new fishermen each year. At least some of them, upon seeing the presentation, would decide to build a rod for themselves, perhaps looking at the possibility of attending a hands-on class. Others might not want to build their own rod, but might be convinced of the benefits of owning a custom rod and thus order one from one of you. In the end, the custom rod market would be increased and the number of new builders would increase. This benefits the custom rod builders and the dealers and manufacturers, all the way around.

I only wish I had time to put something like this together. I have given the idea to the Guild and the ACRB group. I have not seen any progress on it yet, but it is something that this industry could greatly benefit from. I wouldn't doubt that the custom rod building market could be doubled in a single year with such a thing. If the various dealers and manufacturers had a trade group that could spearhead such a thing, that would be one more way to get it done.

My experience in the custom rod building field over the past 20 years or so has been that no one in this industry really tries very hard, or at least not very smart. Too bad. The idea I mention here could be fashioned and put into use within 10 days, if someone would just buckle down and do it. You make copies of your narratives and slides, and have them available for any rod builder who wishes to use it at his local TU, FFF, bass club, fishing shows (the recent Charlotte Fly Fishing Show people told me they would love to have had a rod building presentation such as this to give to the thousands of people who passed through during the 3 day event.), or just about any other fishing event you can think of. The results would be huge and it is so easy to do.

All too often, those in this industry fight over getting a bigger piece of the same sized pie, and nearly always to the detriment of their competitors or vice versa. It isn't necessary. The whole pie can be made much larger, just by taking a lesson from the general fishing industry. They don't wait for fishermen to decide they need something new, they take new ideas to the fishermen (some are quite oddball but they tend to result in sales anyway - fishermen are gadget crazy). You take this presentation the fishing public via the clubs, events, etc., and you'll double the market for custom rods in a year. (Or course, I suppose I am just as wrong about this as I was RodMaker Magazine and Rodbuilding.org.)

...................

.........................

Tom,
What you mention about a slide presentation is similar to what we showed to small or interested groups at our recent rodreel tackle show. We showed several dozens of images of what can be done on a custom rod in the way or thread art, handles, personalization, and so on. The slides shown of some hands on work with the thread on a lathe, and also the 'live demo' with a couple of special rods including the spiral wrap. On a local level, we've done this in the past and grow with new ideas as we go along with actual showing of what is a custom rod. We'll advance with this for a more effective presentation just as you suggest with a complete to finish rod build slide presentation.

I would agree that the craft begs of public recognition for what we can do as custom rodbuilders, or what components can go together and the reasons why such fuss and beauty can go into the work or custom rod building. Show the anglers, public, and interested parties the idea about custom rods, and I believe more of the rest can follow in craft support for having more sustainability and pride with the builders allowing even more opportunity. Whether this be oriented with one organization is debatable, but it does seem many rodbuilders like to have some better marketing aspects for their custom rods and they need to get involved even at one on one with a presentation with their rods or a program borrowed such as the 'slide show'. Many forums can present for this opportunity such as local angling clubs, but also get the word our for a general public recognition of this craft. More awareness means more opportunity for potential customers of the custom rods.

What I hear from rod builders is they would like more of this opportunity of collective advertising which really doesn't seem to exist. Perhaps tackleworks will help some, the guild also with limited scope as a volunteer organization. It's still something we have to do more on an individual or word-of-mouth basis and help with small presentations.

Setting up at major sport shows may be the way to go, but requires some means of financial support for doing this as booth space is fairly expensive. The more local environs are less of a cost factor, and I bet many rodbuilders would be taken up and invited to present their case at local flyfishing, bass, and conservation type of events.
Where there are gatherings of anglers, there is opportunity for them to want to know what is with equipment, and this is where the custom rod fits in. Don't rule out arts and craft festivals as a place for presentation of intricate art on a custom rod.. This is appreciated by many recreational anglers with an eye for something special.

I find another thing to help in a presentation is the fish pictures by those who catch fish with custom rods. If you can do this, it can make for a very effective presentation. It keeps those from saying the rods are too 'pretty' for actual fish catching performance. If anything, show a large fish, or a very attractive species (not mermaid) with a picture of your cusotm rod as the end slide in the program. It associates what the rod is meant for! Fishing.

A presentation on decorative wraps won't cut it for this type of thing. I assume that what is being talked about is just a general presentation on how a custom rod is made. Some decorative stuff could be thrown in, but what you need is the type of thing that shows that nearly anyone with some patience and information can build their own rod and why a custom rod might offer some benefits. Even with the new rod builders that would be the result of such a thing, the number of fishermen who might opt for a custom rod would be much greater. So the demand for custom rods would always outpace the number of new rodbuilders who could fill those orders. Not a bad idea.

My suggestion and I know you're busy Tom, but if Rodmaker magazine made the program and then loaned it out to anyone who wished to give it, you could preface the slides by saying the presentation is sponsored by Rodmaker and that way you'd get new subscribers for your efforts. You seem to be the one person who gets an idea and then follows through with it quickly. And it's always well done. Just something to think about.

Mike,
The presentation about thread art is more for rodbuilders past the beginning stages, but it also is good information if presented in a basic way for fishermen to know they could get a custom rod personalized.
I agree that presentation about performance is the key for selling custom rods to fishermen, however we know as custom rodbuilders that there is more to building a rod than making it a factory match.
Something like spiral wrap to show, alternative use of guide type and spacing, selection for specialty that may be in your area (maybe a good choice for a topwater rod or something)....these are all to show specific use or better performance. How you show this as adapted to the custom rod might be the difficult part. After all, a factory rod representative can show similar performance features side by side.
What would need to be shown is the custom aspect for any potential customers that they could not find otherwise. This may be showing specific handle fit, balance to the reel used, etc. Things less considered with ordinary rods. This is what a custom builder has to relay to create a growing clientele and be convincing.

I think it may be unfair to make this idea incumbent on Tom's time, as I already know the plate is full with obligations for his magazine, but I also totally agree he has an impetus to give us the challenge to go forth and do these sorts of things individually. Once you do the sort of road show with displays and some presentation, the next step of putting together a slide program shouldn't be that difficult. I would also suggest the Rod Building Guide nearby at presentations, as this has the picture sequence to really show how to build or do the step by step basic crosswraps. Maybe something from that could be adapted into a slide presentation and sold or loaned out through Tom? I know it's asking a lot.

Rich

Hi,

The idea of a slide presentation, professional pictures and commentary, is great.

The package would be the standard so everyone would get the same info. The presenter could add her/his personal comments.

This could also be backed up with hands on displays, such as a reel seat installation prior to epoxying. The student could take the reel seat off, see whats under it and feel the proper tightness (clearance) while sliding the reel seat on and off. Other displays could be added at a minimum cost to the presenter.

This would allow the same program to be taught all around the US and other countries. I don't know if we get into licensing or not.

I have considered the merits of teaching a beginners course at adult education. My hangup was I wanted the students to build a rod. Now how does the student take home a rod just epoxied? How does the student spin this rod for 4 hours.? Most locations do not allow you to leave gear behind.

I think libraries would be happy to have a course taught at their site such as with slides. It could be a 1 or 2 night presentation. It could be a perfect lead in to rod orders, doing epoxying for them and also a follow on course such as private lessons or group meeting/demos.

Recently my friend organized a 1 day, 8 hour presentation at a local meeting hall. It was advertised in the local fishing mags. With the help of 9 other rod builders most of the day was spent seeing various demos.

It was attended by 44 paying attendees. The cost was $75 and included 2 coffee breaks and lunch. We also had a small flea market.
The response was fantastic. Most wanted to know when the next show would be. The range of experience was from interested beginner to professionals.

I feel that 1 day local shows or evening presentations would work best. Most people do not have the time nor funds to go away to a school for a week. Many folks would love to go to a Rod Guild Conclave or RodCrafter Seminar BUT can't get away from home for a full weekend.

This morning I video tape a fishing trip for macks. By the end of 2002 I hope to have enough video to use at 2003 boat shows.

I hope or at least want to try and do something like this over next winter to be used at 2003 shows that I participate in as a custom rod builder.

There is a part of me that thinks maybe Scout Troops would appreciate learning about and building their own rod. Can you imagine going on a fishing trip with them catching fish with a rod they made!!!!!!!!

Thanks to Neal's Fishing Products for their email. I will keep that info. Hopefully in the future I will have need of your offer.

Capt Neil

Oh, a senior moment!!!!

I should add that the net proceeds of the 1 day rod building show was sent to an education center for fishing and a group that takes children fishing.

Capt Neil

Rich,

The photos/slides from my book are not my property. Neither is the book itself. I had already thought about assembling such a presentation using those, since they had already been shot and would encompass most of what would need to be shown. But again, they're not mine and there would be some legal issues in using them for such a thing.

Taking 30 or 35 slides showing the construction of a custom rod and related benefits, performance enhancements, etc., would only take a weekend at best. The narrative could be written in a day.

It would be necessary to keep track of who had each program set and make sure it would be returned. As far as who could or would do this I have no idea. It is the industry (dealers and manufacturers) and the professional rod builders who would reap the greatest benefits from it.

Perhaps a group of them will step to the plate and take it on. Of course, if only one or a handful does it, and uses it for their personal advertising, many rod builders would not wish to utilize it. It has to be a completely open with no strings attached for any particular dealer, manufacturer or group, if it is to have the greatest appeal and capable of doing the entire craft the most good.

For the record, I have spoken to a rod builder that I think would do a good job of it. We will be talking more and if he agrees to do the photos then we might move on it from here.

................

I just got the issue of RM today and read Tom's thoughts on a school. Set one up and if any way possible I'll come!!!

The idea of a slide show is excellent!! I believe it could accomplish all the objectives that have been talked about above - #1 education of existing and potential builders, increasing demand for components, increasing demand for custom rods and the one that caught my heart, the scouts.

As I read many of the responss above, I get a feeling of - it's difficult, who should fund, how should it be distributed, etc. It made me think of Kennedy's quote "many ask why, I ask why not". (I hope it was Kennedy!) If the space program had never accoured we would not have many of the products we now use in this craft. The slides could be the fist step the school the next and college the next.

Production of this could be a snap and benefit some folks. Colleges and Commnity Colleges have programs to help people learn to put together such programs. They would more than likely be thrilled with a project like this for hands on learning for students! Let's look at trades involved - Photography, journalisim, computer, etc..

The media format to use - I would suggest Power Point. It is a program designed to do slide shows. From it you can create actual 35mm slides, transparencies, handouts, presenter script, and coupled with a LCD projector show it right from the computer. These files can be posted on a site and downloaded on demand - no need to try to track who's got it and how to get it.

Suggestion - the process should be shown using the simplest of equipment and tecniques in the front. The last could mention or go into more advanced tools and techniques. What about multiple versions dealing with more advanced or more specialized needs. We could end up with online college - rod building 101 - 200???

Thank you, Tom, for putting the idea forward. As with any good leader, the idea comes from them and the follow through comes from others. It's too much to ask that Tom does this, although I think his imput is vital. He seems to have what it takes if he's putting the mag out and developed this site!!

Now, how are we going to proceed? How can we design a project that can start and then grow as more people become committed? We need an outline - sub projects? - we need a statement of what our goal is so that everyone who volunteers to take a part has the "big picture".

I'm new to this craft only having built 5 rods for myself and associates this winter. I believe I'm capable of showing the basics (I learned them here and Tom's book) and I'm willing to help.

Let's expand on the concept this site has grown into of being an open sharing of ideas and info between pros and novices. We can do this.

Please forgive my spelling in the last post. If there would be one thing a could suggest to add to the site would be a spell checker. It's taken me 47 years just to be able to spell "Ray".

I think the consept is great. One question without up setting venders,suppliers and manufactures how would this be accoumplished? As you know every one thinks their product is the best on the maket just ask any manufacture.
Bob

The purpose of a rod building school as I see it would be to teach rod building. There would not be any sponsors or manufacturers there. If they wished to get involved on some level that would be fine, but this would not be a trade show kind of thing, just a school.

Obviously, something like this is still just an idea, so until someone comes up with a concrete plan, nothing is really impossible.

..........

I LOOKING FOR A CUSTOM RODBUILDING SCHOOL. I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN MY OUN SHOP BUT I NEED TO LEARN MORE .ANDGET IN TO MORE CUSTOM WRAPS