Jay,
I think that you are right that maybe we need a different word other than transition. However, the fact remains, whatever word we use, that the line does change directions. It changes directions on a conventionally wrapped rod unless the line always comes directly off of the center of the reels spool and the guides all provide a direct unobstructed path to the tip which is never the case. I think that Williams approach to a spiral wrap is clever but in the case of all spirally wrapped rods the line must also change direction. The line can not get from the reel on top of the rod to the tip of the rod that is on the bottom if the rod has any diameter at all without changing direction. It is physically impossible.

William,
I sincerely do not want to be argumentative but I want to respond to your comments, "too much effort on something that makes no practical difference. Don't watch the standing wave or worry about its amplitude, just build one and cast it."
I thought we were having a rational discussion that might, just might make some practical difference. And as far as just building one and using it is concerned, you can certainly take that approach if you choose but that would simply result in anecedotal evidence and anecedotal evidence has never proven anything to anyone.

gooood stuff. thanks

I'm not sure what anyone here is trying to prove. The Bumper system has already been proven to work. That's water under the bridge.

Fishing line is highlyl flexible - you can make slight deviations in it without affecting casting distance or performance to any noticeable degree. Generally, and due to the problem of reel height, good spiral wrap systems will allow a straighter path to the tip of the rod than most conventional guides on top systems. To get a perfectly straight line path with any guides on top system would normally require a terribly high butt guide, if not terribly high guides for the first two or three guides. And that, would introduce another set of problems. Thus, spiral wrap systems generally allow for a straighter overall line path. And due to the flexibility of fishing line, there is rarely any practical casting distance between the two (but much practical difference in stability between the two).

But again, there is nothing here to prove. The Bumper system works as advertised. It's highly effective and easy to set up. Best thing to do is set up a rod with it and try it out rather than speculate on what it will or won't do. You'll quickly know if you like it and wish to use in on future spiral wrap rods or if you feel it is lacking, at which point you can dump it and move on to something else.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2005 10:14PM by Tom Kirkman.

One potential improvement to the bumper system would be to get rid of the 90 degree bumper guide and replace it with something else. I use a coat of PermaGloss on the rod for about an inch halfway between the first two guides, although I can't say that's the best thing. With enough thought, I think something better than a guide could be utilized for the bumper.


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Don't you have to be concerned with too small of a stripper guide causing a level wind reel not to fill all the way to the sides especially something with a wide spool like a penn 330 GTI on a larger rod?

Kerry

A ceramic bar rather than a ring shouldn't be too difficult to design and build.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

GEt one of those special Fuji guides designed for an interline rod, drill a hole in the blank on the 0 & 180 axis, no need for a Bumper guide, and hopefully no need for a Physics class.

HAving seen teh set up in Charlotte, my opinion is it looks funny with the small guide, and the guides not evenly spaced, and teh guide being spiralled around the blank . But it's easy to do, makes sense, and offers us another way to get the line from top to bottom. Only way anyone will ever know which works best for them, is to go out and try it, fish it, and tweak it to each individual's satisfaction.

You should size the stripping or butt guide as you normally do. Yes, it should be the proper size and properly located. One beautiful thing about the Bumper Spiral System is that is does not change how you normally would space, size and locate your guides. If you are already able to do a good job on the guides on any conventional guides on top rod, then you can do a good job on the Bumper system because it's the exact same thing, except you flip all but the butt guide over to the bottom of the rod. The bumper guide is added inbetween the first two guides and the spacing is not adjusted.

Best thing for those with questions is to read the article and look over the photos and diagrams.


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Stan,

I've gone the ceramic bar route. You have two trouble spots. First, you never want to put anything rigid over a rod blank. If there is much of any flex in that area, the blank will fail at the end of the rigid sleeve or tube. Likewise, if the item you place over the blank is remotely brittle, it may not take much to break it when the rod flexes. But your mind is in the same place mine is - anything that could be fastened to the blank where the line would rub it that would be hard and slick should work.

There is an answer for this and it's just waiting to be found. Wish I had more time to tinker with it. But somebody will come up with something. In the meantime, the bumper guides does just fine.


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Tom,

Why couldn't you use a nylon spacer sleeve, split in two lengthwise, then bonded to the blank at the crossover point?

Bill in WV

Just built my first spiral with the spiral bumper system outlined in the new rodmaker. It easily casts as well as the other spiral system I was using and was much faster to set up. I'm very pleased with it and if it fishes okay I think this will be my new spiral method of choice. Great stuff!

I agree. It works great and requires a minimum of fuss. I'll ditch the rest and stick with this one until something better comes along, if it ever does.

I played with that rod ol' RodMaker had in his booth in Charlotte; this stubborn Norwegian was instantly convinced-"Now there's a neat idea!" So darned simple and OBVIOUSLY works better than the system I'd been using for 24 years. Yeah, I'm changing to this on my next one, and the one after that, and ...

Putter
Williston, ND

I agree that this simple spiral is one of the better systems I've seen so far. Nice job on the article!

I saw you all were discussing this subject a couple of weeks back and the one solution I've found to getting by without the bumper guide is the application of heat shrinkable PTFE (Teflon) tubing placed strategically between the butt guide and the first guide under. You could actually cover the whole area to be safe but that might be over kill. The tubing will shrink down to be semi-tranparent and hold tight, but remain flexible and provide a low friction surface that protects the line and the rod finish. The tubing needs to be placed on the blank before any larger guides that follow it of course. The thinner slices of the Teflon shrink tube work well for holding the feet in temporary guide placement as well.

If you see blank contact with any spiral set-up and you'd like to add a bumper on after the rod is assembled, then another option is to add-in a section of a special Teflon tape which is made with a pressure sensitive adhesive. A single layer of Teflon tape also does a very good job of protecting the line and the blank.

markG

The teflon tape & heat shrink tube methods 'sound' great, but only in certain applications. I don't think either would hold up when you put 45# of drag on a running bluefin or even 17# of drag on a screaming wahoo. For a trout or bass it would probably work great. For saltwater I'll stick to a guided bumper (I will be trying this) or the tried & true 60/120 spiral.

Jay

Jay, I agree. The teflon coating is fairly thick and I picked that because it's the lowest friction, flexible coating that I could come up with. I think it'll work as long as it's in place. Long-term wear ability is yet to be proven but the contact stress shouldn't be too high in most applications, like Bassfishing in my case. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of the line rubbing on the blank but I'll just have to fish one for a while and see how it does. I sure wouldn't do it with out some kind of low friction surface and the nice part is if you don't like it, you can easily take the coating off and drop a bumper guide in place.

Just a couple of comments on the bumper guide and Emory made some good points. I think some of the confusion in this and the earlier discussion stems from the idea that the guide doesn't redirect the line in away other than to stand it off the rod. I'm not sure I agree with that. While it's easy to see that the height of the guide foot will direct the in or out from the blank, you could also show that if you move the guide lengthwise, or rotate it's position around the blank then the line position will also change. Likewise, if you cut the guide in half as suggested above, it won't take long for the line to fall out, so the guide is effectively capturing and "guiding" the line (with whatever little pressure) in multiple directions. The main point though is that the purpose or objective of the bumper is to simply keep the line off the rod, even though the guide will assist is in other axis as well.

I think more testing is needed on the bumper strip idea but it's worth a try.

mark

But you don't rotate it around the blank nor do you change it's position fore or aft. Put it where the article says to put it and go fishing. If you put it anywhere other than where the article specifies, you don't have the "Bumper" spiral system. You have something else.

The Bumper system has been in hard use for many years and has proven itself on everything from bass to tuna. If there were any serious shortcomings we'd know of them by now. One thing I won't do, is run theories in RodMaker. If I'm going to publish a method or technique, it has to be proven to work, otherwise, it won't go in the pages of RodMaker.

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Tom, I agree, and was just commenting on what the guide does in that position in the 90-100 deg range. I also agree that it works well.

Another option if you want to drop the bumper guide. Take a one or more guide rings of the ID required to match the OD of blank section where the line will contact. Cut them from their frames, slide them over and with proper spacing, epoxy them to the blank in the location of the bumper. Since the rings are fairly narrow and the epoxy somewhat compliant, the jointed array will flex with the blank. The nice part about this system is you can take the line to either side and you have a very hard smooth contact surface. One note of caution.....do not to size the rings too tight since you want to allow for some thermal expansion of the blank, which will be greater than the rings.

If you want to add a ceramic or guide ring bumper on after the rod has been built you can cut the rings in half with a diamond saw. It's a little more work, but if you match the ID of the ring to fit the OD of the blank, then you can epoxy a small array of half rings to the side of the blank where the line would otherwise touch.


mark

That's a good idea but you have to be careful. One sure way to break a blank is to just drop a washer or ring down over it and let it fall until it stops. Then put a deep bend in the blank - it'll pop right where that object is located every time. Of course, on most rods, the blank isn't going to flex very much that low and near the butt. But some do.

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On no, I wouldn't have written an article on a technique that was still in the testing stages and I also wouldn't have expected Tom to publish it if it wasn't a proven method. When I read the articles by other builders in Rodmaker I expect them to be about sound and proven techniques and so I waited until I had built enough of these and had enough out on the water with many fishermen before I even approached Tom about writing an article on it. I only did it after I was certain it would work as intended. We don't want to be putting information out there that might be suspect or lacking in some way.