William,

I hope if didn't sound like I questioned your method or testing of it. I think you did a great job on the article BTW.

Any further testing that I was referring to above was specific to my ideas of using the Teflon bumper or the (unframed) guide rings over the blank, without the std. bumper guide.

mark

An old wire/steel guide, somewhat flattened so that it has a slightly oval ring, and the legs bent/shaped so that the frame sits very low and close to the rod, is something I plan to try on a future. rod.

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Hello all,

I've been following the new "bumper" spiral technique threads since they started showing up a few weeks back.

I had come up with an idea and began testing it but Mark Gibson beat me to it. It was the idea of using the rings from guides and slipping them over the blank to act as a bumper. They are hard, slick, and don't look as out of place as a guide does. They are narrow enough that they do not change the rod bend. They are easily removed from the guides with some heat. It may require 2 rings to keep the line of the blank when there is little tension and when fully flexed.

I have come up with a couple problems though.
1) Rings are only available in limited inner diameter. Almost all of my blanks would use a 10 to 16 size ring. There are only three common sizes here (10, 12, 16). Most rods would require some spacer (thread) to be used to build up the rod to fit the next size up ring. Almost all the steelhead and salmon blank I have would use a 12 or 16. The gap from 12 to 16 is too large. A 14 size would be nice.
2) Possible rod breakage if the ring was tight to a blank where it needs to flex. Tom Kirkman brought this up. If the ring was tight to the blank, the blank would probably break at this point when flexed. The blank ovalizes when flexed. A tight ring would cause a localized stress and make a week spot in the blank.

So, can someone answer this for me? Would a ceramic ring around the rod blank significantly reduce the strength of a blank if it had some thread under it to act as a buffer/spacer? How much thread would be needed to protect the blank? 1 layer of A? 2 layers of A? More? I really don't know how much ovalizing a blank actually does. I just know that a tight ring would be bad.

My first test will be on a HS1023 salmon hot shot blank. There is not much flex in the bottom half of these blanks.

Frank

Frank,

I wouldn't recommend using thread to fill the gap. The thread is fairly incompressible and would transfer most of the stress (if any) directly to the blank. I've tried a few different options and one would be to cushion mount your rings. I'm glad Tom reinforced the idea but you don't want any compression on that blank. A soft fit could even get tight if the rod gets hot...like in the Minnesota sun! ;) That's why I mentioned leaving extra room for expansion... leave a good sized gap and make sure the filler is compliant. What's interesting about the ring is that the rod will be stronger in that area just inside the ring, but the blank will break where the stresses concentrate just outside the edge.

I've tried a few different options, and one would be to cushion mount your rings. You can oversize the ring and mount them on a soft foam (decorative) ring or sleeve around the blank. You can die cut foam rings or a full sleeve and slide the guide rings over that. Get the fit right and you can either bond or just press them on and move them around to suit. Another option is to slit your bumper guide rings. Cutting one side open allows for some flexibility or better yet splitting the rings in half allows you to mount with adhesive and be able to remove them if you want to change it later. I've got a power diamond saw with a very fine blade that'll cuts the rings like butter, so shoot me a note if you'd like a ring or two cut.

Another option, thick rings of Teflon placed in the same way as a guide over the blank. Untreated Teflon is more difficult to bond because of it's low energy of adhesion, but once you know where you want them placed, you can capture them with a couple of decorative thread wraps.

One other note. Be sure to test cast you rod before you wrap it up.. I tested a couple of lighter weight rods without the bumper guide…blank surface protection… one Croix 4S70MLF and another 4S70MM, both blanks built casting. The configuration with the bumper guide (as in the article) did a little better in casting very light lures. The performance depends on the characteristics of the line as well. Not to belabor the earlier point... the bumper guide acts primarily as a stand-off when the line is under tension, but let the line loose or when casting and the guide does help capture and guide from moving up or out in other directions. The bumper guide can help tame the line when casting if it wants to slap a little, esp. with a coily line on a light lure. It doesn't hurt to experiment a little but if you don't use the bumper guide and rather go with one of these surface bumpers, bringing the 2nd guide out from under a few degrees little can help in some instances.

Good luck!
mark

Boy!, I stumbled into this thread at an opportune time. I had wrapped a MB963M last year in the spiral fashion and was never happy with the results. I had my first 180 guide out way to far trying to keep a straight line for casting purposes. I spent last night moving guides all over the place with little casting difference with the arrangements. Then I found this thread. I immediately tried it this AM and was very pleased. It is indeed extremely simple. I did have one gripe however. I was using a 2 oz. sinker for my casting tests and felt a significant increase in drag or resistance on the retrieve even with a number 8 single foot. So, I took a nap. And as usual the answer arrived. I cut a 2" section of jig hook and taped it to the side of the blank midway and at 90 degrees to the first and second guides. This resulted in an enormous improvement in both casting ease and retrieval ease. And I achieved the longest cast of the day. My fear of a signifcant amount of uncontrolled line billowing out was not realized.
So now, where can I find a source for small diameter hardened rod to tape on?
Thanks a bunch for this thread!
Bob Leab