Mark Van Ditta wrote
"For any other type of rod, I would agree; however, fly rods are held to a very different standard. Fly rods are supposed to be pretty. :-)"

All the more reason for you to glue up your own grips and get creative. With the experience you seem to have with wood and guitars, gluing up a grip would take you no time at all. Plus, pre-made grips look like pre-made grips, the shape to me is very recognizable, whereas a custom shaped grip looks custom and therefore more "pretty"



Mark Janeck
Custom Rods, Campbellville, Ontario

Mark,

There is something else that you need to get over. All handcrafted rods are suppose to be pretty, however function over form should always be embraced. For the life of me I don't understand you fly rod guys . Why should a fly rod be more pretty than a popping rod, a flipping stick, a surf rod, a stand up rod, a drop shot rod, and so on and so on?, And yeh I build fly rods however , I don't care anything about fishing them.

Later, Gerald McCasland

Gerald McCasland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is something else that you need to get over.
> All handcrafted rods are suppose to be pretty,
> however function over form should always be
> embraced. For the life of me I don't understand
> you fly rod guys . Why should a fly rod be more
> pretty than a popping rod, a flipping stick, a
> surf rod, a stand up rod, a drop shot rod, and so
> on and so on?,

While I feel like I am being trolled, I will take the bait! :-)

The answer is simple; namely, price! A decent entry-level production small stream fly rod, like a 4wt St. Croix Avid, sells for over $150.00. Your average fly fishermen does not even flinch when he/she sees a $300.00 price tag on a mid-tier production rod, and there does not seem to be a shortage of people who will fork out over $600.00 or more for a production Thomas and Thomas or a high-end Sage. How many bass fishermen will part with that kind of money for a production flipping stick? How many bass fishermen are willing to fork over over $1K for a custom rod? I see a lot of custom $2K+ bamboo rods when I fly fish for trout.

> And yeh I build fly rods however ,
> I don't care anything about fishing them.
>


I quit all other types of fishing when I started catching fish on the fly (I fly fish in salt as well as fresh water). All other types of fishing have lost their challenge. Plus, I do not have to deal with the drunks like I had to when bait and lure fishing as it is pretty darn hard to fly fish while intoxicated.

One last thing: poppers were invented by fly fishermen! :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2005 10:44PM by Mark Van Ditta.

Well.....fly rods may be held to very different standard by some people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I, for one, don't care for the look of a cork ring that has absolutely no flaws. Mark's grip sure looks good to me. Some of the rings I use have very few imperfections (if that's what you would call them) and some have more. None of them have fillers. I've found filler to be used on preformed grips and don't use them for that reason. But then I also use burl, wood and some synthetic materials because the cost of good cork is getting a bit high for me to use as a full grip. Lot's of other choices are available, you might drop Ray Jorgensen (Classic Custom Wood) a note and ask how the weight of his beautiful wood grips. I'm sure he's done a few comparisons . Don't quit!!!!! Find another product!!!

Fly-fishing while your intoxicated is easy, you do it the same way you do when your sober. Sorry just had to chime in on the drunk comment. While I agree that I have never seen a fly-fisherman completely intoxicated and fishing, not all bait fishing is easy intoxicated either!

This is about cork right? :)

Are you guys telling me you can fish when sober???
dang!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2005 05:18PM by Mike Anderson.

Mark,

Please explain to me why fly rods should be held to a higher standard than any other handcrafted rod. You also say all fly rods should be pretty and hint that this is not the case with other rods.

Man there is a lot of stuff that you need to suck it up about and get over. Explain to us why a hand crafted fly rod should be prettier and held to a higher standard than a hand crafted popping rod, spining rod, casting rod, fliping stick, surf rod, stand up rod, drop shot rod, and so forth, and so forth.

Later,
Gerald Mc

I wouldn't go so far as to call the akward slapping of line into trees while false casting fishing of any type, but thanks for the vote of confidence Mike!

I think that if you are going to sell a rod for many hundreds of dollars to the desired clientele, then you had better build that rod to meet the customers expectations. In the case of most fly fishermen, the rod must be very attractive. At least as much as any factory rod and their filled grips make their cork look better than it really is. Bottom line is that fly rods have to be prettier because fly fishing customers expect them to be prettier.

You can suck it up and get over it, but you may not sell any more rods to your desired clientele if you do. You can't force them to buy what you offer, you have to offer whay they'll buy.

I think any custom rod, assuming the fit and finish are good look better than a production model that a thousand other Joe Fisherman have. IMHO- Having unique character is prettier than fitting the mold

Good point that in the final analysis a fly rod is also meant to be fished. I meant to a show a couple of weeks ago where they had $30K shotguns on display, and believe you me, the wood and engraving was fantastic. I doubt that the owners would ever shoot them, however. Fly rods and their devotees are not that crazed, but they do like a nice looking rod and are willing to pay extra for it. I doubt the fish notice.

I am with Gerald. I can not see why a fly rod needs to be any prettier than any other custom rod. You really do not believe that a fly fisherman is the only one that can appreciate a really attractive rod do you? Actually I do not see why a fly rod should cost any more either. There are no more conponents or labor in it. The cost of fly rod blanks should not be any higher than any other type of blank either but they are but only because the blank manufacturers can get a higher price when they say it is a fly rod blank.

The situation with cork may get better in the future. Most of the best cork from Portugal and Spain goes into wine bottles but the larger makers of inexpensive wines are starting to switch to other materials. Even a few a the makers of more expensive wines are also swithching due to problems with contamination.

And the cork tree plantations are being dug up and more lucrative crops are being planted. If anything, cork will actually be harder to get over the next ten years.

Cork is a very unique material in many ways. And it's one of those materials that for some uses, such as in fishing rod grips, has yet to be supplanted by a synthetic material that has a better set of the desired properties or qualities. But something will come along. Necessity is the mother of invention and if cork goes by the wayside, somebody will develop something to replace it with.

I'll also throw out one suggestion for a lightweight, smooth as silk grip material - balsa wood. I know some builders use it and like it. It's not quite as resilient as cork - onced dented it tends to stay dented, but it is one alternative that is light, easy to work with, free of flaws, etc. It takes a variety of finishes and isn't really any more expensive than cork. Just something to keep in mind.

...............

Don Davis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point that in the final analysis a fly rod is
> also meant to be fished. I meant to a show a
> couple of weeks ago where they had $30K shotguns
> on display, and believe you me, the wood and
> engraving was fantastic. I doubt that the owners
> would ever shoot them, however.
>

I grouse hunt with a guy who takes an $18K Krieghoff K-20 into the field. If that were my gun, it would not leave the house, but this guy owns an estate in Potomac, Maryland and has money to burn.

I just received some AAA rings and some blanks from a dealer on the sponsors list and I have to say they were the worst rings I have ever received. I have already contacted Andy Dear about his exotic rings. At least with the scale Tom is talking about there will be some sort of consistancy for the buyer. It's a little hard for me to take the rings back (although I would love the trip) LOL.

Regards

Mark, I just went through this myself. When I first received my cork rings, I thought wow, real good stuff, until I turned them! I think people that sell filler cork rings at vey high prices are theives. And , in the long run, are cutting their own throats. I will never order anything from the supplier that bent me over the bench for a 1.75 cork rings, again. I'm still PO'ed. Suppliers that sell filled cork rings need to feel the heat from us. If your gonna sell them, KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE and price them accordingly. Thats all I'm saying.

I would like to see a "filled" cork ring. I've never seen such a thing and can't imagine the labor involved. How anyone could sell a filled ring for less than $3 to $4 per ring is beyond me. Far too much effort to go through I would think, but again, I've never seen such a thing.

Normally you can return cork if it doesn't meet your expectations. However, you have to return the entire shipment - you can't pick through the lot and pull out the better rings and return the rest. It's an all or nothing deal. Always ask your cork dealer if they offer a return policy on their cork.

............

I think the published scale will be a good thing and should eliminate confusion. I would think all I would have to do is have my supplier look at the scale and then tell me which one of the published grades his Flor or AAA rings most closely matches. That way I get an immediate idea of what quality of cork I'm buying. Right now it's just a crap shoot. Any supplier can tell me that he's selling and sending me Flor grade, but what does that really mean? Is there any photo of actual Flor grade cork that exists anywhere so that any of us can actually see what Flor grade is SUPPOSED to look like? Seems to me that if you get rings with huge holes and pits in them the supplier can still claim that to be Flor grade since there is no industry standard in place.

Good Point! Who says a flor ring is supposed to be pretty? How does anyone know what a flor ring is actually supposed to look like in order to attain that rating?

Is there a website somewhere that shows in photographs what the various grades of cork are SUPPOSED to look like?

Wouldn't cork be somewhat similar to wood in that you don't really know what you've got until it's worked? Might look perfect until sanded, then, you find the flaws and pits?

I've had lots of cork that I thought was great - almost perfect until it was worked. I just assumed this was the nature of it?

And, do factory rods fill their cork on completed handles? Some rods I look at off the shelves do seem to have almost flawless handles.