While spin, trolling, bait casting et al. rod builders have multiple via options for grip construction, the only acceptable material for fly rod grip building seems to be cork, and the quality that is available to the hobbyist builder stinks! In the last two months, in my quest for a fly rod grip that is better than one found on a " Wall*Mart Special" fly rod, I have purchased twenty-five-dollar-plus (extra select/flor grade, yeah, right) and four dollar @#$%& bargain grips with very little difference in quality. On every single grip, more fifteen percent of the surface area has been filler--IMHO, the practice of selling pre-filled cork should be banned as it is deceptive.

What I want know is how come Wall*Mart can sell a bargain basement fly rod for twenty dollars that has better cork than I can purchase for more than twenty dollars? Are the major manufacturers dumping their culls on the hobbyist market? I am a new builder, and this situation is enough to turn me off of the hobby. This same kind situation turned me off of woodworking. Quality hardwood just got to be out of reach for the hobbyist on a budget (i.e., one whose purse strings are held by She Who Must Be Obeyed). I am tempted to turn a grip out of wood, but there is no doubt in my mind that short of using a stabilized product, which is too dense/heavy to use on a 3wt spring creek rod, it would move/crack/split when exposed to high humidity.

Mark




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2005 02:08PM by Mark Van Ditta.

Mark. Fortunately there are two additional solutions to using a wood grip, which is heavy. First, Miniwax Golden Pecan or Cherry stain. 5 coats. The pits are still there but it looks cool. Second, rattan overwrap. Covers the cork and again, very cool. The rattan is available from Golden Witch. If you need more instructions, holler. I have redone all my cork grips with one of these methods.

Good cork can be had. The new issue of RodMaker contains the new Rod Builder's Cork Grading Scale which will give you a published, representative sample of the various cork grades. When ordering, you want to ask your dealer which one of these grades the cork you're about to buy matches up with. There should no longer be any surprises when buying cork.

..................

You could also switch to burl cork; there's a few different looks available in these; try Andy at Lamar for some of these. Other sponsors carry burl, also...

I just completed my first rod, which was built on a green Hook & Hackle IM6 7' 4wt blank. I used my woodworking skills to beautify the grip as much as possible by putting a deep, hand-rubbed poly/tung finish on it; however, the filler is still very visible.

It irks me to no end that I paid over twenty-five dollars for a 7" piece of cork that would not have reached "No. 3A Common" status in the hardwood world. The hardwood industry went through this same painful process ten years ago. Thankfully, engineered products have replaced dimensioned lumber in most high-volume operations leaving some high quality, but very expensive, lumber for the hobbyist to enjoy. I suspect that we will see the same gradual shift away from cork to an engineered substitute on low-/mid-tier fly rods in the next couple of years as we did with the shift away from walnut and exotics to laminated products in the gunstock industry.

Tung oil over unstained cork is better than nothing, but not near as nice as staining first. The last couple of coats of stain leave a light sheen. The stain harmonizes the filler or eats it out (even better). While it is too late for stain, you can still rattan over the grip with minimal effort. With your woodworking skills, you would like rattan. Sorta like a veneer over less desirable woods.

I feel your pain. I went through the exact same frustration a few years ago. I surveyed other rodbuilders, bought small amounts from various sources, couldn't believe some of the prices, and in the end, was also not impressed with the quality of even the very best rings (I buy rings not complete grips). Rings that look flawless would look average once turned and filled.

Something you can do as a hobby builder is make your own grips from rings. It is not difficult. This allows you to select the best rings for the best rods, and also allows you to add various other rings like burnt, burl, green, red or brown rings, or even thin wood trim rings. Doing this in a creative way will take attention away from the plain cork, and the coloured rings tend to be more consistent in quality.

Also, turning grips from wood is fine on a 3wt. In fact my favorite rod is a 3wt Rainshadow with a combination of cork and wood. [www.fishingphotos.net]

If you look at the pic you'll notice I didn't even fill the pits on that grip and I think it looks just fine.

The wood was purchased at Lee Valley tools and was not at all expensive. In fact it was likely less than high quality cork. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to build a full wood grip on a 3wt.

Don't leave the hobby because of this, instead evolve through creativity.

Mark Janeck
Custom Rods, Campbellville, Ontario



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2005 01:20PM by Mark Janeck.

Or you can marble the grip or flock it.

Mark,

Believe me when I say we all feel your pain. Cork grips are the best feeling grips going and yes we all like to use them, but buying today's cork is a crap shoot at best. It is especially difficult when you have been building rods as long as I have and can remember flawless cork at 20 cents a ring.

There are some good alternatives, namely the burl and exotic burl corks. I think if you would try some of them you would like them.

If you want to continue building rods, the way i see it you need to do what the rest of us have done, just suck it up and get over it, after all it is just a fishing rod.

Later,
Gerald Mc

Andy's exotic cork burl is the absolute best to work with. It fits tightly on the 1/4" mandrels, the density is consistent, and it looks great when it's done. He can also get it in a solid light color if there's enough interest. If he stocked the light color, I don't think I would ever again order regular cork.

I would not say that the off shore rods have better cork. Let those rods be out in the weather for 6 months. Also if you a close inspection their defects have been cosmedicly hiddden
Good Wraps Bob

Don Davis Wrote:
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> Tung oil over unstained cork is better than
> nothing, but not near as nice as staining first.
> The last couple of coats of stain leave a light
> sheen. The stain harmonizes the filler or eats
> it out (even better). While it is too late for
> stain, you can still rattan over the grip with
> minimal effort. With your woodworking skills, you
> would like rattan. Sorta like a veneer over less
> desirable woods.

I guess that I should have been more specific about my finish. It is basically a homebrew mixture that contains oil-based polyurethane, tung oil, mineral spirits and aniline amber dye (I do not like using stain because it lays on the wood instead going into it). It has very good "hiding" properties on filled wood; however, I believe that the problem stems from the use of epoxy in the filler instead of a more dye friendly glue.

As an aside: I did not find working with high-build Flex Coat to be difficult at all. It is very forgiving for a catalyzed finish. Very few, and I do mean very few, catalyzed finishes have the flow-out/leveling characteristics of this product. I accidentally touched a wrap that was well in the "plasticized" stage (one of those “oh crap!” moments), but it still leveled out beautifully. Anyone who complains about this product should try shooting two-part polyester onto a guitar.

Burl cork (both Andy's and the other commonly available kind) is more uniform and without defects. But that's because it is a composite, and there's a consequent downside: it is heavier, up to four times so, than natural cork. It doesn't have quite the same feel either. Still. I'm using it more and more, usually in "mixed" handles containing both kinds. You don't notice the defects of the natural cork as much that way.

Mark Janeck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Something you can do as a hobby builder is make
> your own grips from rings. It is not difficult.
>

I chose to use a preformed grip to keep the number of variables to a minimum. I wanted to focus my energy on guide placement, wrapping et al., which turned out to be easier than tying some of the more difficult flies. Also, from reading posts on this forum, I had nightmares about using Flex Cote—all of which turned out to be unfounded. IMHO, it is extremely forgiving for a catalyzed finish.

>
> If you look at the pic you'll notice I didn't even
> fill the pits on that grip and I think it looks
> just fine.
>

I prefer seeing pits to filler; however, it is very difficult to remove the filler without damaging the cork.

> The wood was purchased at Lee Valley tools and was
> not at all expensive.
>

I have several Lee Valley manufactured tools and jigs--my favorite plane is a Veritas edge-trimming block plane. However, I have never purchased wood from them because I have very good local sources.

Gerald McCasland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to continue building rods, the way i
> see it you need to do what the rest of us have
> done, just suck it up and get over it, after all
> it is just a fishing rod.
>

My wife said the same thing! :-)

I have had the same problem getting good cork. Several times I have purchased the highest grade cork only to find that only a small percentage of the cork rings are truly flor grade/extra select. Of course that jacks up the cost of a nice grip since you have to cull through so many rings to make a good grip. Seems like in years past high grade cork was high grade cork. Nowadays seems like top quality has taken a position a few notches lower.

One problem as I see it is there is no standardized grading for cork. The grading scale Tom K. mentions is in the latest RodMaker edition is a noble effort, but both vendors and buyers will need to embrace the concept of a standardized scale (ANY scale) before it will work. Some vendors advertise medicore grade cork as flor or extra select, they need to be sold on the scale before it will work.

Lou

If you want to continue building rods, the way i see it you need to do what the rest of us have done, just suck it up and get over it, after all it is just a fishing rod.


Laughed out loud on that one Gerald. Tell it for what it is man.

Mike Anderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to continue building rods, the way i
> see it you need to do what the rest of us have
> done, just suck it up and get over it, after all
> it is just a fishing rod.
>
>
> Laughed out loud on that one Gerald. Tell it for
> what it is man.

For any other type of rod, I would agree; however, fly rods are held to a very different standard. Fly rods are supposed to be pretty. :-)

Nobody has to embrace the new scale - all they have to do is look at the photo and ask their dealer what grade he's selling, what his flor, or select or AAA matches up to in the photo. The new scale can be used right away and it doesn't have to be adopted, only viewed.

...........

Gerry Rhoades Wrote:
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> Andy's exotic cork burl is the absolute best to
> work with. It fits tightly on the 1/4" mandrels,
> the density is consistent, and it looks great when
> it's done. He can also get it in a solid light
> color if there's enough interest. If he stocked
> the light color, I don't think I would ever again
> order regular cork.

Based on Andy's reputation, I would buy at least fifty rings without seeing the stuff. Heck, where's the telephone...I may even buy fifty rings of the light-colored burnt burl.