At the show I saw a few different methods for a spiral wrap. I have never attemped a spiral wrap but I plan to within the month. Now, I am confused on which method would be best. I plan to build on a American Tackle, Matrix Mag Bass 6'6" (AMMBC784). I would like to use the New Titan guides also. The reel I plan to use is the Pflueger "President". Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

All work, some better than others in certain situations. What you saw at the show in my booth is an all-around method that works as well on bass rods as it does on stand up trolling rods. Give it serious consideration - it's very simple and it works very well. That's a hard combination to beat.

For those who couldn't attend the show, an article detailing the set-up of this method will be in the very next issue of RodMaker.

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Jim,
In my judgement, if the rod is going to be used to cast with you will want the transition to be gradual so that the line path is relatively straight and so that you do not add any more guides than is absolutely necessary. If the rod that you are building will not be used to cast but will be primarily a boat rod you will want the transition be quicker, get the line to the bottom of the rod quickly, so as to minumize the torque and an extra guide or two is not as big a problem in terms of rod performance. I assume because of the blank you are using that you will be using the rod to cast with in which case I would try to make the line path from the reel to the tip as straight as possible and not use any more guides than you would use if the rod was set up conventionally.

The method that will be shown in the next issue doesn't really have any transition guides (one to keep the line off the blank but it doesn't redirect the line path in any way). It gets the line underneath the rod in just a very few inches and preserves a very straight line path. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm betting it may be the one spiral wrap method that actually could become the "standard" within just a few years.

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Tom,
If you can get line from a reel on top of the rod to the tip on the bottom of the rod without "redirectly the line path in any way" you will have to employ some sort of magic.

No magic. It works and I've used it enough now that I won't go back to anything else. Thanks to Tom for letting me write the article and helping me over the rough spots.

William,
Lets say that the line is coming off of the right hand side of the reels spool and the transition guide or guides direct the line around on the left hand side of the rod, or visa versa. Even if the blank had zero diameter, doing that without "redirectly the line path in any way" would be magic.
You may very well have come up with a superior way of positioning the guides so as to direct the line in a straighter path. If so my hat is off to you and I look forward to seeing what you have done. But you can not get the line from the top of the rod to the bottom of the rod without there being some small change in the direction that the line travels even if the rod had an almost zero diameter and the width of the reels spool was almost zero.

I let the blank and the line dictate where and how I setup my spiral wraps, but am looking forward to the next issue since most of my builds are spiral wrapped.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

The next spiral that I build will have the set-up that I saw in Tom's booth on it; gotta play with that baby-sweet, simple, & straight.

Putter

I have used one guide to transition but find that I have to tweak it a bit as well as the second guide(first 180). I refurb a lot of rods and merely invert the present guides. I may cheat and make the butt guide a little larger but place the second guide at the present location only 180 out. I then place the transition guide in-between, tweaking as required.

This is explained in Clemens book under spiral wrap where he uses the one guide at 90.

I tried it when I first read it and I never could get the line to go straight with a 90 degree angle. If you can do it with a 90, my hat's off to you as I simply cannot. Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees.

A good transition that I have found is the first at 110 degrees and the other at 145. If you want a three guide transition, place another transition guide at 180. This even casts well.

That second guide needs to be a low frame guide.

William and Tom, when can we expect to see the next issue with this article?

The issue will be out in April. You don't need any "transition" guides per se. The whole idea that the line must "spiral" around the blank is a misnomer. It doesn't have to do that, but it does have to pass by the blank on one side or the other.

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I guess if there is no line pile up on one side of the reel, no undo stress on the level wind guide on the reel, streaght line path, no line slap -- one could use as many or as few guides as it takes
[www.willierods.com]

You can take any regular guides on top casting rod and just flip all except the butt guide around to the bottom, string it up, and go fishing. It will work just fine. But, you will eventually have the blank finish between the first and second guide rubbed raw where the line contacts the blank. But you'll have a straight line path and get great casting distance. The line rub is something we cover in the article.

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That is the whole idea of keeping the line off the blank no rub or slapping on the blank takes away from casting distance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2005 10:32AM by bill boettcher.

Tom,
I do not want to split hairs but even with the guide set up you describe, no transition guides, the line must get from the top of the rod to the bottom by traveling around the rod. It can not go through the middle of the rod. When the line rubs the rod then the rod itself is acting as a transition guide forcing the line around the rod.

The worst case is when the line is coming off the reel at one end of the spool and the line goes around the rod on the opposite side. Something that I do not think has been discussed is that choice of reel is going to have an impact. It might be better to use a reel with as narrow a spool as possible. It seems to me that the narrower the spool the easier it will be to set the guides up.

If the line touches the blank at any place, a guide has to be put there, unless you use some thing other then a guide?

If you do go straight from the butt guide to the second guide, you can avoid line rub by tweaking the second guide a bit. I used this during my experimentation days and it works with no problems. Tom describes it as a 'zero guide transition'.

I have spiral wrapped every way known to man and find there's no 'right' way. If it is done correctly(there I contradict myself), it will work better than with the guides on top.

As my mentor Don Morton told me when I was learning. If you can get to the bottom of the rod in the straightest line path possible with no sharp angles, go for it.

Does anyone have pics of this method using one buffer guide? I am really interested in the no angle bit. I have used the smallest, lowest frame guide that I can conjure and it still isn't straight. Maybe you mean the straightest possible? Why not put a wrap of some kind (Teflon comes to mind), instead of a buffer guide to protect the blank?

I'm off to the lab this morning for more research. This bothers me. C2

In my mind, I consider any guide that is set between 0 & 180 degrees 'transition' guides. Even the butt guide, when set off center, is a trans guide to me. To me the term 'transition' comes into play at the point the line leaves top-dead-center (0 degrees) and begins it's path to the 180 position. This is indeed a transition from top to bottom. That transition will always be a spiraling action as the blank is there as a constant. If the blank were removed, I can see claiming the line doesn't spiral as it may appear to be straight.

The way my mind sees things there will always be a so-called transition from a conventional reel spool to the underside of the rod blank.

This of course is just my opinion...of which I am reminded at work every day doesn't matter much.

Jay