I'm still debating swithching to varnish, and I guess my biggest question with all the hassles I've had with epoxy is:

Is there any possible reason NOT to switch? That is, does epoxy have ANY performance advantages over varnish?

varnish was the finish of choice from the bamboo era through the fiberglass era (of flyrods) and some still use it for graphite. it is a nice finish but requires a little more work in my opinion. when i use it it requires many more coats than epoxy to get a finish that i like. it has to be put on in thin coats so you can't just glob on one or two coats and be done with it. three to five thin coats with adequate drying time between coats. drying time measured in days, not hours. as for performance i think it is more than adequate. once dry it is durable. if you are going to use it get a good quality marine spar vanish. mcclosky's (sp?) man o war marine spar gloss is very good.it will hold up very well. some like spar urethane. it dries faster and is quite hard. minwax brand spar urethane is good quality.
for a color preserver under varnish i am using a water based indoor polyurethane finish by Olympic. Varathane also makes a similar water based product. three coats of the water based followed by three of the spar and you have a very nice finish without any footballing. or you can go without a color preserver and do about five thin coats of varnish and get a deep transparent look to your wraps. personally i find epoxy to be easier and faster, but go to varnish when i am doing a classic.

Larry,

Is there any weight difference Epoxy / Varnish??
Iv'e been thinking of giving it a try. I also just finished a 3wt with Guoid Speed Coat and I think it was a great finish. It reminded me of varnish in my woodworking day.


Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Epoxy is actually easier to use than varnishes imo. Once you learn how to measure, mix and apply epoxy it's a snap compared to varnishing. I would suspect that it is also more durable. Weight - I see no problem using epoxy on the lightest of rods. Use the smallest of wraps and always apply two thin coats without CP.

I dip finish cane rods in varnish, that's the easiest! Draw back of varnish is the final curing time which may take months! My cane rods may hang for up to 6-8 weeks before delivery.

Jon

I have switched from epoxy to using Minwax spar urethane on all the fly rods I build now. It does take a few extra coats but the ease of use, just open the can and put it on, imo far outweighs the pain of measuring and mixing epoxy. Now I have only one finish for both reel seat inserts and wraps an feather inlays.

Bob

What about the darkening of these varnishes that we all hear about?? Does it continually darken over time and get to that brownish color??
If so, what kind of time frame are we talking before it's "too brown"?

Putter

I've never used it on a rod, so I can't say but I know that anything outside that I have ever varnished has darkened considerably after exposure. Looks nice on wood but I'm not sure on thread

<ike

I think you will find that spar urethane will not darken like regular varnish, it contains uv absorbers. I have wood signs that have been outdoors for over 3 years that look like new. I also did some test wraps on wooden dowels that have been outside in the sun,snow and rain for almost a year and they have not faded or gotten darker. Here in Central Oregon the temp. ranges from below zero in the winter to 90+ in the summer. I'm really sold on the stuff, it is much like Perma Gloss but with less fumes.

Bob,

Sounds good to me!!! Have to try it.

Mike

I have never seen any darkening with varnish, but then my rods don't see a lot of use. In my experience it dries very quickly, about 15 minutes of turning with a re-coat after 12 hours. My biggest complaint is its tendency to set up in the can. Even with BLOX from Golden Witch it tends to film over over time. Once more a pitch for Klass Kote epoxy paint which has the user properties of varnish and covers in 2 coats. I am currently trying to find the perfect undercoat and I will try the water based Varathane. I have been using 1 coat of spar (to preserve some color) and 2 coats of Klass Kote. All regular epoxies are too big a bother, particularly the short pot life. Klass Kote has a pot life measured in hours and less odor than Permagloss. Yesterday I used it to paint a section of blank as an experiment.

I'm Over here on the Oregon coast (Hi Bob!)...

I used the same stuff as Bob for a couple of yearsw...the Min-wax spar urethane. I found it very easy to use. 5-8 very thin coats....I usually left 12 hours between coats, so I could do one in the vening and again the next morning.

It worked very well! I have changed to Flex Coat Lite because I like the look a little better...but I don't imagine there are any real performance differences.

Get some nice hair brushes (sable I think is whaqt a lot of guys prefer) and clean them after each coat in thinner or such. By a little can of the Min-wax...you'll do tons of rods with it.

I actually think the varnish is a little easier to use...but you do have the multiple coats thing. I usally put on two coats of the FC Lite anyway...and often a third if some wraps haven't turned out just right and I have to sand them down. (these are very thin coats)

You also don't have to worry about turning the rod with varnish..it is self leveling. Good luck....

Keith

i don't know about a weight difference, except that i tend to put on more epoxy than i do varnish. i don't think its a big deal.

"You also don't have to worry about turning the rod with varnish..it is self leveling. "
? ! What about sags?

As far as filming in the can, try an old painters' trick and store the can upside down.

All oil-based finishes will polymerize if exposed to oxygen. The key with any oil-based finish is to remove headspace from the container before storing it. This can be done by decanting the finish into a smaller container or adding clean marbles/glass beads/BBs to the the can.