Well,I only build flyrods for now and I've been using LS Supreme since starting out.I have had somewhat mixed results unfortunately.When everything goes right,it looks fantastic,but I've had too many cases where it doesn't and feel it may be time for a change(or at least time to try something else).

My health has been diminishing and I've found that the extra coats needed for the results I want(especially in the butt area),are simply too much work for me and when I end up with tiny bubbles in the finish(which happens more than it should),I end up spending ages popping them with a pin since I can't(or shouldn't) hit LS with a flame to help.

Lately I've been having lots of bubble problems,and also lots of dust problems.Unfortunately the only room I can work in has more dust present than I would like due to my 2 dogs and one big cockatoo.It's not like there's dust flying everywhere or anything,but there are a few more bits than I would like.My last rod caused me tons of problems with dust bits and micro bubbles and that,combined with my health(bad fibromyalgia and back/shoulder injuries from a MVA accident 5yrs ago) are taking to much of a physical toll on me.

I still like LS for the long pot life,but I find that I am wasting too much of that time trying to fix my little problems like bubbles and dust particles for it to be a benefit.I often end up having to mix 2 smaller batches anyways.I also like the clearity and flexibilty of LS alot,but what I need is something that will give me similar end results but in one coat instead of 2 or 3.I also need one that I can hit with some heat to help my bubble problems since I can't seem to get them all out with a pin and it's simply WAY too much work for me.

As much as I LOVE doing a rod,it is extremely fatiguing for me to both wrap a rod by hand and especially,finish one with 2 or 3 coats(combined with the bubble problems) of LS.I've had days where it took me 5hrs or so to get one coat on a 9-10ft flyrod just right(after getting rid of all the bubbles and any dust particles that somehow found their way in) which is crazy for someone with my health.This is a hobby that I want to enjoy doing and not have it feel like really hard work(which it currently does).

Anyways,I was wondering what people would recommend for a finish that would stay as clear for as long as LS,but would be a one coat finish that I could apply heat to?If you had physical limitations and had to get the job done fast and as easy as possible,but wanted the best final product possible,what finish would you choose and what would you apply it with(spatula,brush,etc)?

I'm thinking of trying Glass Coat finally(read many good things here) and figured it would maybe help me out,especially in the butt sections,but was wondering how Flex Coat and the other high builds compare to it?

Shorter pot life is no problem as I would probably benefit from mixing several smaller batches anyways.That way I could give my body a short break or two in between batches.Is Glass Coat pretty easy to work with?I've read that it does make for a great clear finish but would the final results last as long as LS as far as holding it's clearity?

I use glass coat, but thin it out. Flows nice. I like the shorter pot life. Another good one is Amtek's Clear Coat. The longest set time, but a nice finish is Classic coat. Flows nice, but takes a long time to set! For your dust - I would vacumn often, and get a spray bottle and spray the area with water before you finish to keep the dust down, heck even the whole room

Tony,

Sorry to learn of your health problems. Spending 5 hours finishing your rods is certainly not going to help. I can explain my techniques for finishing wraps which I have been using very successfully for several years now, but I must warn you many will not neccasarily agree with my methods. But they work wellfor me.

Ok starting with the bubbles. I coat my threads with a heavey single coat of std polyurethene varnish as a sealer. I do not have to worry about colour retention as I only use NCP thread. I leave to dry for a minimum of 6 hours and a maximum of 24 hours before applying the high build. I never touch the threads with my fingers after this coat or transferred grease from even freshly washed hands could later cause fish eye.
The high build I use is a Canadian product clled Gibbs, it is a medium bodied polymer finish and behaves very simiraly to other high builds like Flex coat etc.
I work with my rod in the wrapping jig and I start at the tip end and work my way down wrap by wrap.

Now I against all the latest knowledge I mix the high build with the one eigth of an inch wide flat brush that I am going to apply the high build with. I can mix more thoroughly and much quicker thus giving me longer open working time. I do not get masses of bubbles during this process, and Guys I always make sure I do not have unmixed material left in the brush before applying. The brush is very important to the quality of your work. I use a Winsor and Newton Cotman Series 666 and for fly rods, the one eighth of an inch is perfect. These are not expensive at around $4.00 each. I get 15 rods before the hair loses it's shape and resiliance. Clean up is with Cellulose thinners. and then washing up liquid .
Mixing time one minute to two maximum.

Applying the high build

I verv lightly load up the brush and then starting towards the left side of the wrap I run the brush right around the wrap but let the edge of the brush run onto the blank for about 2mm. This gives you a very thin collar of finish onto the blank. I do the same for the right hand side of the wrap. Why the collars? well when you apply the thicker coat of high build it can flow off the wrap and onto the collar. The collar will stop it flowing further. The collars also alow you to creat a super fearhered edge .
Next step is to load up the brush with a quite heavey amount of finish. Practice and experience will tell you how much. But try and load only the tip area of the brush.
Now push the brush around the left side of the wrap and force the finish to flow onto the collar. Do the same for the right hand side. You then fill in the middle of the wrap. Use the tip of the brush to work the material around the wraps. You are constantly rotating the rod by hand whilst doing this.

Next step is to lay off using very light horizontal strokes. Clean off brush to remove most of the finish against the side of your mixing cup first. Work from very edge of the collar and do left to right and then right to left. You turn rod around whilst you do this. If you have too much high build on, then, no problems just take some off with your brush and repeat the laying off process. This sound very long winded and laborious, in practice it is very quick to do. Total time to finish 16 wraps ,15 to 20 minutes. Gibbs takes about an hour to start to set up to the point it won't sag, so rotate using std techniues and you will get a very good finish. It goes withpout saying that your room shuld be very warm.


Bubbles. I find that by just blowing very gently onto the wrap will remove most. You want the very stale air right from the bottom of your lungs. In words its kind of a hurr sound, really empty the remanants of your lungs for best results. Don't spit and be carefull if you have a beard in case there is tea or coffee lurking in it which will ruin your finish. Stubborn bubbles can be picked out woth a slightly blunted sewing darning needle. Easier to hold than a pin.
I seriously get very few bubbles using this technique. I do not induce bubbles using my brush either, even though I have seen advice that recommends not using the brush to work in the way I do. I have never used an alchol lamp or other form of heat for bubble dispersal as it has never been a serious issue.

I have tried Gibbs straight into the threads and that was a bubble nightmare. The thick finishes just do not diplace the air quickly enough so whilst they are setting up the bubbles keep a coming, and are very difficult to remove then.

I only ever use one coat of high build on fly rods or surf rods. It is easy to control coat depth by how much material you appy to the wraps.
High builds in my experience are very sensitive to contanimation and thin multi coats increase chances of contamination whilst drying between coats. You also have more opportunities for dust and other airborn crud to screw up your finish. Your dogs and bird are not helping in this respect.

I try and not allow anyone in my finishing room while working and during set up time. Difficult I know but it helps a lot.

Hairs in wraps

The little air born hairs the sort you can see on a sunny day can be picked out with the sewing needle, up to quite late in the setting up time, although I would not try to remove one much past one hour. You make the situation worse after that and it's best to leave alone.
A tip which can also help keep hairs and stuff out of your finish is to wear non lint type clothing and short sleeve shirts in poly cotton material.
Also I only ever dry my hands pre -finishing, on a freshly laundered towel and for very the really extreem of you out there I use masking tape to dab the hairs transfered from the towel to my finger nails and nail beds before starting.

If you want to try the Gibbs but can't find it I can send you some of mine foc. Or you may find them on the web. I am confident that the other finishes should do the trick to.

I hope this helps good luck

Regards Mike Oliver

One possibility is that you might try the new LS Supreme High Build. You can get one-coat coverage with no problems. But it is very thick and a bit harder to manage for those used to thinner coatings. You'll have to apply less if you want to maintain a reasonably thin overall coating on your fly rod wraps. But it can be done and with quite remarkable results.

..........

Tony,
Glass Coat and LS Su;preme for clarity are among tops as is their durability. Glass Coat drying time and short pot life make it a professionals choice. LS Supreme high build is the new one out there that is worth a try for one coat coverage. Another very good finish that you might consider is Clear Coat that has excellent qualities for working time, and overall features making this a very good choice.

Rich Garbowski
Richard's Rod & Reel

Tony,

You are getting some fantastic advice. However Doing your rods and finishing in the same room as Dogs and a cockatoo is going to be quite a challange. Having had birds myslef i get the Dander/Dust issue, especially with cockatoos. I would go out and find an air purifyier that will pull dust and dander out of the air etc. When i bought mine there was a night and day difference in my room with the bird. While this may be a tad expensive i think you will find that your dust/dander accumulation will deminish. As far as finishes, there are many great products. I have used both glass coat and clear coat and like them quite a bit. Bubbles go away if you add a bit of heat with a lighter on it. I like many others am using some form of polyurethane as a primary coat and then 1 coat finish with an epoxy. I like this process and will continue to improve. There was an article in Rodmaker that said find a process that works for you. Stick with it and improve it so your finish/threads and rod become more predictable as you do more. The process should be repeatable. Good Luck.

Gregg

ps. what kind of cockatoo??

Greg,

That's really solid advice in the Rodmaker you mentioned to find the process that works for you and importantly to stay with it. You have always got a refferance point then and somewhere to return to if adventures with newer finishes and techniques don't work out the way you hoped.


Mike Oliver.

Tony, you might try a section cut from a closed foam paint brush (the gray ones from the hardware store) to apply your finish. Just be sure to cut about 75% of the width of your wrap. Throw away when done. Lays the finish on flat. I use varnish (few bubbles) after switching back from a very thin epoxy, so this may not work with heavier mixes. Pop the bubbles with the corner of the brush. Although you specified an expoxy, varnish sets up fast and the Varathane 900 I use doesn't smell much. You may get away with using this product at the kitchen table (so far the wife hasn't complained) and let the finish cure in a less dusty environment in the house, even with the blank standing vertically. Five 15 minute jobs with varnish beats the marathons you are describing. As mentioned, you can also do the first coat with varnish and finish with one epoxy top coat, buy you would need to rotate.

A bit of advice from someone who has a pet and had a dust problem because of cork sanding dust. My shop is in my basement, so there's not much ventilation. But I also have asthma. And when ever I would move anything, dust would fly everywhere.

So I hung clean bed sheets through out my basement to section it off. Then I spray them well with water from a spray bottle to dampen them. The dust collects to the sheets and after a week I throw them in the wash and start over again. When you dry the sheets, don't use any softner sheets. That way they built a static charge and that attacks the dust. It made a major difference in my work area.

As far as finishes, heat is the trick. I use a propane torch on a medium coat. So far so good.

Wow,thanks for all the great advice guys!

My dust problem probably isn't as bad as I made it seem(it's not as much of a problem as my bubble and health issues).

I don't do the rods in the same room as my bird or dogs,in fact they rarely get to come in that room.Unfortunately I end up with some tiny hairs,and especially fine dust on my clothing that is tough to avoid.Not only that but the dust that my bird gives off is incredibly fine and has no doubt worked it's way through the whole house a bit at a time over the years.It's impossible to get it all out of the air unfortunately(although a air purifier would help alot),but my rod room has by far the least in the house.

The room that I have set up with my driers and where I apply my finish is actually on a different floor from where I keep my bird(Rambo,a large white bird with yellow crest & under wings.LOL.It is the same bird Berreta use to have and is called a Triton or Greater Sulfer Crested Cockatoo) actually but some dust manages to creep up there somehow.Maybe I should just put a coat of LS on him.LOL.

One thing that I'm sure is contributing to my dust problem is where I often wrap the rods.

I often do them in my bedroom/fly tying room while I watch TV or something so I can take frequent breaks and rest my hands and upper back(which gets really messed up fast by my fibromyalgia).When I have done everything else and the rods are ready to put the finish on,I take them upstairs to my other room.

Unfortunately where I assemble the seat/grip and wrap the rods is downstairs and much closer to my bird's cage.In fact it's right next door and he is often in my room while I watch TV anyways,so I probably have alot more dust in there than I am aware of.I am probably getting alot of dust and tiny hairs on my wraps before the finish is even applied and that is probably a big part of the problem.

I think I will probably give Glass Coat or something a shot,just to see how the work effort is compared to what I'm doing now.I am getting good end results in most cases with LS,but the effort required in doing that is a bit too much for me.I might try the new high build LS as well,but given my bubble problems I "may" be better off with something I can hit with a little heat.I guess I won't know until I try it out.Trying different brushes from the disposables(and trying a small foam one) wouldn't hurt either(although I don't really "brush" the finish on I use the brush as more of a flexible spatula I think).

I'll also have to try using a polyurethane as a first coat since I've seen that recommended here several times.Does anyone have a good recommendation for one?

Anyways,thanks so much for all the advice!

Tony

Tony, I ordered some Klass Kote epoxy yesterday and intend to try 1 coat over flood coat of Varathane 900 from Golden Witch. The Klass Kote is supposed to be very thin with a very long pot life. You might have problems with contamination though with the long drying time.