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simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: June 30, 2024 05:03PM

i am building 3 piece fast action 15ft surf rod with simple spiral wrap. what is the optimal distance between 0 degree guide with 180 degree guide?

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: June 30, 2024 11:35PM

Between 8 and 11 inches has been the best distance for me, going long doesn't work well even though the blank and layout appears to make it look like it would be fine sometimes.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 01, 2024 08:10AM

Set the rod up with all the guides on top. Do the usual static distribution test and space guides as you normally would. Then spin all the guides to the bottom, except the butt guide.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: July 01, 2024 11:22AM

Which is just the opposite from what Tom said to me many years ago when my first simple spiral had a spacing of 16 inches on the first two guides from the reel.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 01, 2024 01:56PM

This has been my basic instruction on how to make the wrap since day one. I did not go into details on the distance between the first two guides because you had covered that.

When people end up with their 0 and 180 guide 16 inches (or more) apart it's because they are counting the rub prevention guide in-between as part of the regular guide spacing. You don't want to do that.


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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 01, 2024 06:00PM

after i space all the guides as normally would and spin all the guides except the butt guide. then i add an extra 180 guide 10 inches from the butt guide?

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 01, 2024 08:45PM

Not quite. Space all the guides normally and then spin all of them other than the butt guide to the 180 degree position. At that point, you're done. It'll work find.

If do not want the line running from the butt to the 2nd guide to rub the blank, you can go back and located a rub prevention guide somewhere between the butt guide and the first 180 degree guide. This might be halfway or maybe a little closer or a little further than halfway, between the first two guides. It will be about 60 to 110 degrees oriented on the blank. The line path will dictate exactly where it should go. It just keeps the line off the blank - it does not transition or redirect the line path.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 02, 2024 04:38AM

is it fine if the distance between 0 degree guide to first 180 degree guide is 38 inches?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2024 05:00AM by Ahmad Taufik.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.63.---)
Date: July 02, 2024 06:14AM

"is it fine if the distance between 0 degree guide to first 180 degree guide is 38 inches?"

The distance should be whatever it comes out to be based on the static loading test which located the guides all on top. Anglersresource.net has a good two line test that is easy to do. Two line is simpler than one line since the guides don't load the blank and you can move them without unloading the blank.

38 seems like it's longer than I would expect, but let the test tell you the locations.But I've never done a surf rod, so am not really qualified. How many guides are you using?
"

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 02, 2024 06:37AM

7 or 8 guides max including the rub prevention guide. I dont see why i should use more guides like regular casting rod coz the line wont be touching the rod anyway.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.63.---)
Date: July 02, 2024 07:48AM

I would think for a rod that long you'd need more guides to ensure proper stress distribution. I hope some surf rod expert chimes in.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 02, 2024 08:39AM

Almost 40 inches between the first two guides seems awfully distant to me. Granted, you may have a powerful rod with a very stiff lower 3rd and it may seem not to need guides any closer than that but if I were you I'd have about the same number of guides as the rod length in feet, give or take one or two. A 15 foot rod with only 7 or 8 guides seems inadequate to me.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 03, 2024 09:16AM

thanks. Any suggestion on guides size?

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2024 09:45AM

What reel and line size will you be using?

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 03, 2024 09:55AM

abu garcia ambassadeur 7000, 0.23mm 40lb braid and 0.5mm 60lb tapered shock leader.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2024 10:59AM

I'd start with a casting style #20, Drop to a #16 and assuming your shock leader knot will pass through smaller rings, then go to #12's on out. If you can make #10's work I'd do that. But you don't want your shock leader knot catching or hanging in rings that are too small. This is something you'll just have to mock up and try to find out.

As far as the line rub prevention guide, you want the lowest and smallest you can get away with. I would likely attempt a #12 there and shift it fore or aft, up or down, until the line is moving through the bottom center of the ring. Again, you have a shock leader knot that has to pass through so you'll have to try it.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2024 11:00AM by Tom Kirkman.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Ahmad Taufik (---)
Date: July 03, 2024 11:07AM

for the line rub prevention guide, do i position it parallel to the rod or slightly oblique following the line path?

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 03, 2024 12:23PM

Adjust it so that the line runs through its center. This could be anywhere from 60 to 120 degrees.

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Re: simple spiral
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 04, 2024 11:08AM

Hi Folks.

Here is what I have on "spiral wraps".
Volume/Issue..........Article.............Author.............Page.
8/2 The Simple Spiral. (Wrap-Around or Acid Wrap) 16
15/6 Spiral Guide Placement. By Joy Dunlap. 10
25/6 Spiral Wrap DEMO DEVICE By Tom Kirkman. 22
8/4 Spiral Wrap Demo Device. (Tom Kirkman). 14
3/5 Spiral Wrap For Casting Rods. 24
6/5 Spiral Wrapping, Making The Transition. 24
18/2 Spiral, A Different Way To Do It. By Chris Carrowell. 30


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

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