i am building 3 piece fast action 15ft surf rod with simple spiral wrap. what is the optimal distance between 0 degree guide with 180 degree guide?

Between 8 and 11 inches has been the best distance for me, going long doesn't work well even though the blank and layout appears to make it look like it would be fine sometimes.

Set the rod up with all the guides on top. Do the usual static distribution test and space guides as you normally would. Then spin all the guides to the bottom, except the butt guide.

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Which is just the opposite from what Tom said to me many years ago when my first simple spiral had a spacing of 16 inches on the first two guides from the reel.

This has been my basic instruction on how to make the wrap since day one. I did not go into details on the distance between the first two guides because you had covered that.

When people end up with their 0 and 180 guide 16 inches (or more) apart it's because they are counting the rub prevention guide in-between as part of the regular guide spacing. You don't want to do that.


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after i space all the guides as normally would and spin all the guides except the butt guide. then i add an extra 180 guide 10 inches from the butt guide?

Not quite. Space all the guides normally and then spin all of them other than the butt guide to the 180 degree position. At that point, you're done. It'll work find.

If do not want the line running from the butt to the 2nd guide to rub the blank, you can go back and located a rub prevention guide somewhere between the butt guide and the first 180 degree guide. This might be halfway or maybe a little closer or a little further than halfway, between the first two guides. It will be about 60 to 110 degrees oriented on the blank. The line path will dictate exactly where it should go. It just keeps the line off the blank - it does not transition or redirect the line path.

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is it fine if the distance between 0 degree guide to first 180 degree guide is 38 inches?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2024 05:00AM by Ahmad Taufik.

"is it fine if the distance between 0 degree guide to first 180 degree guide is 38 inches?"

The distance should be whatever it comes out to be based on the static loading test which located the guides all on top. Anglersresource.net has a good two line test that is easy to do. Two line is simpler than one line since the guides don't load the blank and you can move them without unloading the blank.

38 seems like it's longer than I would expect, but let the test tell you the locations.But I've never done a surf rod, so am not really qualified. How many guides are you using?
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7 or 8 guides max including the rub prevention guide. I dont see why i should use more guides like regular casting rod coz the line wont be touching the rod anyway.

I would think for a rod that long you'd need more guides to ensure proper stress distribution. I hope some surf rod expert chimes in.

Almost 40 inches between the first two guides seems awfully distant to me. Granted, you may have a powerful rod with a very stiff lower 3rd and it may seem not to need guides any closer than that but if I were you I'd have about the same number of guides as the rod length in feet, give or take one or two. A 15 foot rod with only 7 or 8 guides seems inadequate to me.

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thanks. Any suggestion on guides size?

What reel and line size will you be using?

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abu garcia ambassadeur 7000, 0.23mm 40lb braid and 0.5mm 60lb tapered shock leader.

I'd start with a casting style #20, Drop to a #16 and assuming your shock leader knot will pass through smaller rings, then go to #12's on out. If you can make #10's work I'd do that. But you don't want your shock leader knot catching or hanging in rings that are too small. This is something you'll just have to mock up and try to find out.

As far as the line rub prevention guide, you want the lowest and smallest you can get away with. I would likely attempt a #12 there and shift it fore or aft, up or down, until the line is moving through the bottom center of the ring. Again, you have a shock leader knot that has to pass through so you'll have to try it.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2024 11:00AM by Tom Kirkman.

for the line rub prevention guide, do i position it parallel to the rod or slightly oblique following the line path?

Adjust it so that the line runs through its center. This could be anywhere from 60 to 120 degrees.

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Hi Folks.

Here is what I have on "spiral wraps".
Volume/Issue..........Article.............Author.............Page.
8/2 The Simple Spiral. (Wrap-Around or Acid Wrap) 16
15/6 Spiral Guide Placement. By Joy Dunlap. 10
25/6 Spiral Wrap DEMO DEVICE By Tom Kirkman. 22
8/4 Spiral Wrap Demo Device. (Tom Kirkman). 14
3/5 Spiral Wrap For Casting Rods. 24
6/5 Spiral Wrapping, Making The Transition. 24
18/2 Spiral, A Different Way To Do It. By Chris Carrowell. 30


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Greets.
We may have issues here.
Are you mounting your reel to be controlled by the upper or lower hand?
If power casting, once the sinker is away, the line comes off the spool in a profound loop.
The line casts the line, think fly rods.

My builds are for reels mounted low, the UK norm, set up for 180 to 240yards. Butt ring circa 7ft from the spool. Usually, a 30mm or 40mm stripper. For reeling in, we keep a reducer in the boot or belt whilst casting.
I would like four transitional rings to preclude disasters. Power casters like their rings to be like looking down the barrel of a gun. My 14 footers use 5 to 8 intermediates. The stiffer tournament tips don't need so many.
My upper rings would all have been at least 12mm. Modern rings, maybe 10mm. Absolutely no tighter. Ti tip of course.
You will have to pass a leader knot to 80lb mono shock leader, for basic safety, at nearly 200mph. Splicing a tapered shock leader into hollow braid works a lot better. Still thick and stiffish though until the leader has cleared the tip.
Working leader will need to be double the rod length plus 6 turns around the spool. Always use a metal clip to your terminal rig. Backbone of the rig, agains needs to be circa 80lbs. Crack offs can kill or smash boats.
Assuming a normal casting drop of down to the top hand or a little longer.

Running fish? Rough ground? You will never pull 20lbs on a 15ft beach caster? 7000 would not be my choice. Surely too big. ABU have / had a bigger spooled 6500 carcase. Never used one.
Greater capacity spools are available for 6500s and the slightly wider tournament cages. Can be built to pull > 10lbs. 30lb line? I use Penn 970s or 980s for really rugged stuff. They are Senators inside.
There should have been a flier, narrower than the 970. Penn wimped it. Prototype now lost. Cast with Abu, fish with Penn. The Penn Fathom II 12SD would do it for me. UK Winter beach fodder. Beach reels are expendable remember.

For distance, why else, a 15 footer, you start with a full spool. How full depends how brave you are. After some 6 seconds of flight, accompanied by much screaming from the reel, the sinker will hit the water but you will have nearly 300 yards of aerialized line still pulling. If your reel is the right size, the spool will speed up as the line level drops and the lead accelerates downwards. That aerialized line, behaves like a bowden cable.
Retrieve 50 odd yards to regain contact and there should be a working fill left on your spool. Fish seldom try to run straight out, at least not when over 150yards off shore.

I build all my boat and rock rods, acid style, generally with rollers. I believe the gun barrel principle to be so important that I would never build a tournament style Winter rod, that way. Tip twist, so far has not been an issue.
Resisting twist throughout a big cast has been a blank design issue from the beginning. The stresses are huge yet the tip needs a near instant recovery to facillitate a stabilized line flow for the first 80 yards.

Enough.
Macolm Hayward.