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Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 08:34AM

Hello

I am new to building. I have have only built spinning rods so far.
One of them uses a MH blank. Blank spacing was followed according to manufacturer.
Reel is spooled with very thin braid &12lb fluorocarbon leader. 12lb is preferred to match the conditions I am fishing.

I have casting issues directly related to the fluorocarbon leader.
This is what happens during the cast: - the fluorocarbon flies off the spool in wide diameters - slaps the rod blank - and then forced through a much smaller 25mm 1ste guide.
The harder you try cast the worse it gets. If you just "Lob" cast it's perfectly fine.

12lb fluorocarbon literally jumps off the reel just by opening the bail. (New/Stiff leaders are prone to this)

Spinning reels & fluorocarbon in the 12lb class don't really pair well. BUT...Is there anyway how can I minimize this? Or at least help the situation somewhat.
Two options I have thought of:
1. Change the 25H 1st guide to a size 30?
2. Move the 1st guide further from the reel?

Asking here because I really don't know if there is a solution but it's annoying for sure.
Willing to strip the guides off and reposition them all if necessary.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Todd Jensen (---.midco.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 09:17AM

How long of a flouro leader are you using?

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 25, 2024 09:21AM

You can try a 30 butt guide although this is likely to only allow the fluorocarbon to come off in bigger coils than what you have now. If you move the butt guide further from the reel, line slapping may increase.

Bottom line - sometimes you just have to try things in order to find out what's going to work best. That's part of custom rod building.

........

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: June 25, 2024 10:06AM

What kind of fluorocarbon leader are you using? Fluorocarbon made specifically for use as a leader material is extremely stiff and hard. Because of this it is certainly not recommended as a wind on leader for a spinning reel. If you insist on using a wind on leader use a fluorocarbon line meant to be used on a spinning reel or use a monofilament leader. In most cases, a wind on leader for a spinning rod is not needed for most fishing conditions. In my opinion, a wind on leader negates the excellent casting attributes of braided line. My leaders are no longer than 3’ to 5’ long and thus are not wound onto the reel. I attach my leader to the braided using an FG knot, which is not only the thinnest knot you can use but also one of the strongest. I have absolutely no problems casting or catching fish with a short fluorocarbon leader.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2024 10:08AM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 10:11AM

Todd Jensen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How long of a flouro leader are you using?

12ft more or less

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 10:15AM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of fluorocarbon leader are you using?
> Fluorocarbon made specifically for use as a leader
> material is extremely stiff and hard. Because of
> this it is certainly not recommended as a wind on
> leader for a spinning reel. If you insist on using
> a wind on leader use a fluorocarbon line meant to
> be used on a spinning reel or use a monofilament
> leader. In most cases, a wind on leader for a
> spinning rod is not needed for most fishing
> conditions. In my opinion, a wind on leader
> negates the excellent casting attributes of
> braided line. My leaders are no longer than 3’
> to 5’ long and thus are not wound onto the reel.
> I attach my leader to the braided using an FG
> knot, which is not only the thinnest knot you can
> use but also one of the strongest. I have
> absolutely no problems casting or catching fish
> with a short fluorocarbon leader.
> Norm


Agreed that if I were to use 3-5ft there's no issues.
I use Seaguar Tatsu which isn't a extremely hard fluorocarbon. It's the best I have found.
Same FG knot.
The reason for longer leader (12ft more or less) is how quickly I go through a leader because of the line to lure knot I use.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 10:25AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can try a 30 butt guide although this is
> likely to only allow the fluorocarbon to come off
> in bigger coils than what you have now. If you
> move the butt guide further from the reel, line
> slapping may increase.
>
> Bottom line - sometimes you just have to try
> things in order to find out what's going to work
> best. That's part of custom rod building.
>
> ........


Thanks for all the replies.
I really didn't think there's an easy way around it.
I will try the size 30 1st guides and play around with guide spacing.
I will never eliminate it but if it makes a little better I'd be happy.
Moving guides doesn't cost much but time. The size 30mm 1st guide however costs $75 LOL. (Titanium Torzite)

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.62.---)
Date: June 25, 2024 12:10PM

The problem of stiffness will not be an issue if the leader is kept off the reel, so shorten it to keep it off the reel, probably about 6-7 feet. There is absolutely no reason to change the guides on the rod even if you want to use heavier FC leaders.

I use heavier and stiff FC leaders with some rods that have size 16 first guides and there is no problem. Stiffness is an advantage with some lures as it keeps them from fouling during the cast. Like blade baits.

Shorten it up and report back, and let us know if the line to leader knot is clearing the running guides nicely or not. If not there are solutions that will not require any change to the guides.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 25, 2024 12:27PM

>
> Thanks for all the replies.
> I really didn't think there's an easy way around
> it.
> I will try the size 30 1st guides and play around
> with guide spacing.
> I will never eliminate it but if it makes a little
> better I'd be happy.
> Moving guides doesn't cost much but time. The size
> 30mm 1st guide however costs $75 LOL. (Titanium
> Torzite)


You don't have to use the Torzite to try it. Buy the least expensive model of the same style guide and try it with that. If it works, then buy the 30 Torzite. If it doesn't, you only out dozen dollars if that. Sometimes that is the price you pay to obtain the best possible rod.

...............

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Todd Jensen (---.midco.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 12:37PM

Probably not gonna like my suggestion but here goes. Try shortening your leader to 6-7’ max. You might need to tie a new leader a bit more often, but that only takes a minute. Seems like a better option than messing with a good performing rod and/or adding weight to it by using a bigger guide. I fish with a 5-6’ flouro leader and don’t find myself tying a new one up more than once a day unless I get snagged up and break it off. Just my $.02

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: June 25, 2024 12:40PM

Have you tried any of the spinning rod designed Fluoros like P Line Spin X? Shortening you leader so it doesn't go on your spool also helps, remember on moving presentations fish are looking at everything end on, so this stuff becomes far less important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2024 12:46PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 01:00PM

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem of stiffness will not be an issue if
> the leader is kept off the reel, so shorten it to
> keep it off the reel, probably about 6-7 feet.
> There is absolutely no reason to change the guides
> on the rod even if you want to use heavier FC
> leaders.
>
> I use heavier and stiff FC leaders with some rods
> that have size 16 first guides and there is no
> problem. Stiffness is an advantage with some
> lures as it keeps them from fouling during the
> cast. Like blade baits.
>
> Shorten it up and report back, and let us know if
> the line to leader knot is clearing the running
> guides nicely or not. If not there are solutions
> that will not require any change to the guides.


I can report that I don't have any issues when my leader gets short.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 01:01PM

Todd Jensen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not gonna like my suggestion but here
> goes. Try shortening your leader to 6-7’ max.
> You might need to tie a new leader a bit more
> often, but that only takes a minute. Seems like a
> better option than messing with a good performing
> rod and/or adding weight to it by using a bigger
> guide. I fish with a 5-6’ flouro leader and
> don’t find myself tying a new one up more than
> once a day unless I get snagged up and break it
> off. Just my $.02

Looks like the easiest option is too keep the leader shorter...

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 25, 2024 01:03PM

Spencer Phipps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you tried any of the spinning rod designed
> Fluoros like P Line Spin X? Shortening you leader
> so it doesn't go on your spool also helps,
> remember on moving presentations fish are looking
> at everything end on, so this stuff becomes far
> less important.

Honestly I have experimented with so many it'll be hard to change now since Tatsuo is that good. (strength & abrasion resistance)
The real problem is 12lb. I do fine with 10lb...but I guess I will just keep my 12lb leaders shorter & replace more often.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Dan Kong (136.226.84.---)
Date: June 25, 2024 04:16PM

6'-8' leader and you'll be fine casting. Honestly though, if you're switching/tying lure that often then build more rods. One for each lure presentation, otherwise you can use fishing snaps for easy lure change.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.62.---)
Date: June 25, 2024 05:14PM

There is absolutely no need to go to a size 30 guide I have not used a size 30 in probably 20 years. I am very surprised to see that advice given.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 25, 2024 08:39PM

Michael? When was the last time you fished 12# test fluorocarbon line, on spinning gear?

Etienne, I totally get you not wanting to switch from Tatsu, to a different line. Like you say ..... Tatsu is that good.

I'm curious what kind of conditions you're fishing where 12# test is preferred? I just ask because I use 10# Tatsu as the main line on one and sometimes, two of my spinning rods. As you know it stands up to abrasion really really well, and is strong as all get out. I've caught and landed a close to 30# flathead catfish on 10# Tatsu.

Just curious if there's something in play that makes going with 10# test instead of 12# test, a pretty much no go kind of thing?

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Michael Danek (192.183.62.---)
Date: June 25, 2024 09:11PM

David, the original post stated very thin braid (main line) and 12 pound 'FC leader (leader, not main line). The obvious solution to this is as others and I have stated, shorten the leader to keep it off the reel. Then a size 16 first guide will work. I do it all the time with 21 pound braid and 16 pound FC LEADER, not FC line, but LEADER. There is no problem with that.

She was not trying to make 12 FC work as a main line, but having the leader on the reel makes it just like trying to make 12 pound FC work as a main line. But since she isn't trying to make FC the main line, then simply shorten the leader to keep it off the reel. And leave the guides as they are. And Etienne reports: "I can report that I don't have any issues when my leader gets short."

The last time I tried FC on a spinning gear was a week ago Sunday. I had won a spool of premium FC, 8 pound test, and I thought I would give it a try. After giving up on FC many years ago. So I tried it. And didn't like it. It cast ok for a while, but then I started having troubles with it. It wasn't going smoothly through the size 20 first guide as my typical braid does, was a little noisy, and I didn't like the stretch and lack of feel. So I took it off and put braid back on. With a 16 pound FC LEADER. And it works just fine. The leader does not get onto the reel.

I would not attempt to use even 12 pound mono on a spinning outfit, let alone 12 pound FC, regardless of how premium it was.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Etienne Reabow (---.static.123.net)
Date: June 26, 2024 06:05AM

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael? When was the last time you fished 12#
> test fluorocarbon line, on spinning gear?
>
> Etienne, I totally get you not wanting to switch
> from Tatsu, to a different line. Like you say
> ..... Tatsu is that good.
>
> I'm curious what kind of conditions you're fishing
> where 12# test is preferred? I just ask because I
> use 10# Tatsu as the main line on one and
> sometimes, two of my spinning rods. As you know it
> stands up to abrasion really really well, and is
> strong as all get out. I've caught and landed a
> close to 30# flathead catfish on 10# Tatsu.
>
> Just curious if there's something in play that
> makes going with 10# test instead of 12# test, a
> pretty much no go kind of thing?

Braid PE 1.2 to 12lb Tatsu. Reason for 12lb leader is simple...zebra mussels in the great lakes. They are like razor blades.
I use 8, 10 & 12 but for bottom dragging tubes over zebra mussel infested rocks 12lb is preferred.

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Re: Spinning Rod Guide Spacing
Posted by: Mike Ballard (---.ip-54-39-133.net)
Date: June 26, 2024 08:34AM

I did not see anyone here advise moving to a size 30 butt guide. That was the OP's idea if I read it right. Somebody did advise that it was fine to try it but that it probably would make things worse instead of better. When I see people talking about leaders I tend to think about bite leaders which are short or leaders on surf rods that do need to come back and wrap around the spool at least twice. This is to take the extreme shock and stress on heavy surf outfits. In those cases the knot is usually more of a problem than the leader itself. I have not fished the great lakes or around zebra mussels but I can see where you might need that heavy leader to keep from getting cut off but I would make it as short as I possibly could which will probably eliminate most of the problem on the cast.

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