I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

2024 ICRBE EXPO
CCS Database
Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Grips Piscari
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
BackCreek Custom Rods
BatsonRainshadowALPS
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
HFF Custom Rods
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Palmarius Rods
REC Components
RodBuilders Warehouse
RodHouse France
RodMaker Magazine
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Stryker Rods & Blanks
TackleZoom
The Rod Room
The FlySpoke Shop
USAmadefactory.com
Utmost Enterprises
VooDoo Rods

Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: jonathan utz (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 28, 2024 04:57PM

Any chance the excessive amount of wind knots ive been experiencing are associated with my kr builds? 16h, 8h, 7h, kb6 , with kt6 runners. Daiwa 8x j braid, kast king finesse braid, 10 lb power pro, the line doesn't seem to matter. Some reels spooled with a machine, others spooled by hand.. now today there was about a 10 mph headwind, but other days, the wind not a factor. I'm definitely experiencing more wind knots than ever, and the only change that comes to mind in my technique or equipment is my use of the kr concept. My guide layout is as spot on as I'm capable of. Coincidence or a typical kr problem?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Patrick Coco (---)
Date: May 28, 2024 05:33PM

When you say wind knots, do you mean knots forming around the butt guide during a cast or knots forming in your line coming off the spool?

The K series guides were specifically designed to shed the former and I've had great experience with them.

The loop knots/wind knots that form in your line are usually a line management issue (reeling in very slack line or too much line) and I've never noticed a correlation with different rods or guides

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 28, 2024 06:16PM

I'm thinking it's a line management thing as well. Although braided lines don't show the affects of line twist as readily as fluorocarbon or nylon monofilament lines do on spinning gear, the twist is still present. I'd try doing the letting line out behind a slowly moving boat, with nothing tied on the end of the line, and drag it for a couple of hundred yards to remove the line twist. Then pinch the line between your finger tips as you reel the line back in.

Pinching the line between your finger tips forces any line twist towards the end of the line. Any twist left in the line will spin out of the line when the free end is lifted from the water. I use fluorocarbon line on spinning gear, and using the described method works like a charm. I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well with braided line.

If you don't have a boat, you can do it out in your side yard, or if need be, take it out to the park and let the line off the spool as you walk. Pinch the line between your fingers and reel it back on. If I change line the night before a tournament or a day of fun fishing, I just go out in my yard and do it. It works almost as good as dragging the line behind the boat. I say almost, because I usually have to do it two times in the yard, before I get all of the twist out.

One things for sure, it's not the guides.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: jonathan utz (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 28, 2024 06:18PM

Jeez Pat, it happens so fast I can't tell where the knot is forming. It is about 25 feet of line into the spool. So, I am releasing about 25 ft. Of line before the explosion. I guess in a roundabout way I'm asking if the rapid reduction train as a performance enhancement can create potential problems. Kinda like running nitrous in your engine? I really doubt the KL guides are to blame but the coincidence is intriguing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Todd Jensen (173.0.23.---)
Date: May 28, 2024 06:35PM

Ice had zero issues with the Kr concept layout.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: May 28, 2024 07:01PM

Sounds like you are getting a loop formed in the line when you flip the bail after castingby cranking the handle. This loop can cause a problem on a subsequent cast causing a birds nest. You can prevent this loop from forming by closing the bail with your hand after making the cast. This is a line management problem not a guide train problem.
On a different subject, why are you using a 7M or L ( Fuji doesn’t make a 7H) as your third reduction train guide for a 16H based reduction train? These are not a KR reduction train option with a 16 H butt guide. In addition, size 6 runners seem very large when using light braid. I think you would have a much more efficient guide train by using the recommended reduction train guides coupled with smaller runners. Just my thoughts.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: May 28, 2024 07:02PM

Sounds like you are getting a loop formed in the line when you flip the bail by cranking the handle. This loop can be a problem on a subsequent cast and may cause a birds nest. You can prevent this loop from forming by closing the bail with your hand after making the cast. This is a line management problem not a guide train problem.
On a different subject, why are you using a 7M or L ( Fuji doesn’t make a 7H) as your third reduction train guide for a 16H based reduction train? Neither of these are a KR reduction train option with a 16 H butt guide. In addition, size 6 runners seem very large when using light braid. I think you would have a much more efficient guide train by using the recommended reduction train guides coupled with smaller runners. Just my thoughts.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2024 07:08PM by Norman Miller.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: jonathan utz (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 28, 2024 07:46PM

Great question Norm. A KL 7 gives me progressive spacing and a laser straight line to my KB6 choker. Size 6 runners for no other reason than I can't see very well. I know it's off spec, but I figured I'd build them and fish them and see what works. After all, it's been said the KR software has some glitches, so I just do whatever I want. I'm still learning and I like simple. So I use my own concept. 16 H butt guide set around 19", then put a KB6 around 40", then fill in the blanks.
I hope I'm not in trouble. I am open to criticism and thoughts from more experienced builders. My whole build whatever I want attitude comes directly from the pages of this forum. Thanks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: May 28, 2024 09:03PM

Not the way I would do it, but If you like it and are happy with the way it fishes, it’s fine. After all, it is your rod.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: jonathan utz (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: May 28, 2024 09:54PM

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not the way I would do it, but If you like it and
> are happy with the way it fishes, it’s fine.
> After all, it is your rod.
> Norm

I would love to know what your doing with the 16h grouping. Anything special beyond the software?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 29, 2024 06:52AM

I use the KR software, use KLH KB KT's on almost all my spin rods, and don't even bother to test cast any more. I never find that I can see an improvement from tweaking the software's recipes. I also don't get many wind knots.

The only glitches I've heard about with the software come from mis-applying it to other guide styles or using the wrong software with KLH guides. . I've never noticed any glitch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2024 06:52AM by Michael Danek.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 29, 2024 10:11AM

Ditto on David's comments about line twist.

To amplify his comment a bit.

When on the lake or body of water, remove all terminal tackle from the end of your line. Now you simply have line on your reel spool and you have the line running through guides.

Put the boat in gear and at the slowest speed, pull line off the end of the rod and when you get 5 feet or so, drop the line in the water and start pulling line off the reel through the guides into the water. After a hundred or two hundred feet of line out, there will be sufficient pull from the water that the water drag will continue to pull line off the reel. Continue to move the boat through the water and continue to let line off the water until all of the line is off the spool. To further amplify David's coments a bit. Continue to pull the line through the water for 1-3 miles. Then, stop the boat and with the tip of the rod remaining in the water reel all of the line back onto the reel. During this time, don't touch the line. Let the rod and reel do all of the work.

Once all of the line is back on the reel - go ahread and tie on your terminal tackle and go back to fishing.

After doing this - let us know if your issue with wind knots is gone.

By the way, repeat this process - at any time you start to see a hint of a line coil or wind knot in your line again.

Just because the line is braid - does not make the line immune from line twist.

I am assuming that this is a spinning reel - the way that you are talking and mentioning - reel bail. So, if you are using a spinning reel - line twist is simply part of the problem and thus the fix -= to let out line from time to time and drag the line though the water is simply part of the fishing process to keep line twist out of your problem basket. By the way, with a spinning reel, use will end up causing line twist. It matters not, how you put line on the reel and whether you use swivels or not nor what particular spinning reel you are using - your line will get twisted with use - if you are using a spinning reel.

Best wishes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: Kerry Hansen (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 30, 2024 11:54PM

in addition to what Norm suggested on closing the Bail, don't keep cranking the spinning reel if you are not gaining line, you are just twisting your line.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 31, 2024 07:26AM

As has been stated before. Just because one has braid on a rod and reel setup, does not mean that the line can never get twisted. So, at the first sign of line twist- i.e. apparent wind knots or other signs of line twist, do the line behind the boat with no terminal tackle on the end of the line. Let out all of the line off the reel as you slowly move forward and then pull the line through the water for a good distance, say a half or full mile and then slow the boat, and with the tip of the rod under water, reel all of the line back on the reel. You should be good to go - for a while until you encounter line twist again.

If you are using a spinning reel - it is inevitible that at some time you will experience line twist. So, don't be upset when it happens - if it is inconvient to take care of the issue at the time - pull the reel off the rod and put it into a reel bag that has been set aside for reels needing help, and strap on a spare reel.

Note:
For myself, I generally have a half or full dozen rods in the boat. Most of the time, I do not have reels on them. Then, I have a reel bag with a dozen or so reels.
When I go to use a rod, I grab the appropriate reel, put it on the reel, thread the line, tie on terminal tackle and I am good to go.

If carrying a lot of rods, it is so much easier to store a maximum number of rods, with no reel and no line threaded through the guides.

It takes but a moment to put a reel on a rod and get to fishing Also, by having a bag that contains reels needing some sort of help - it expedites the fishing day on the water, without fighting throujgh equipment issues.

This is also why when building a rod, I never ever count on a particular reel being available for a particular rod. Also, often a rod will be used for many many years - if it is a good one and a favorite one. But, in that same time, reels can change, technologies can come and go - so, I prefer to keep an open mind and use the most appropriate reel for the particular way that I am fishing with a particular rod. Depending on the fish being targeted, I may use a diferent reel on the same rod over a week of using a particular rod on a particular outing.

Years ago, I stopped the practice of carryig a spare spool of line for a given reel. Rather, I keep a spare reel - loaded with a particular spool and line. I have simply found that I can change a reel much faster than I can change a spool on a particular reel if the need arises for a different line - due to any of a myriad of reasons.

Best wishes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Kr concept and wind knots
Posted by: MichaelTarr (---)
Date: May 31, 2024 08:09PM

All my spinning rods are KR concept builds and zero issues with wind knots using braid to mono leaders.

If it is line twist your roller bearing may be seizing. Replacing it with a sealed abec 7 Boca bearing is a good idea.

Flipping the bail manually and guiding the line into the roller before reeling is also a good habit to pick up.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster