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Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: May 25, 2024 05:31PM

The last fly rod I built was over twenty years ago, and I have built several. Those in the 7 and 8 weight range I built for salt water use, and used Fuji's spinning DPSMs or DPSDs for the reel seats. To this day, they look like they were installed yesterday. I'm not much for flare, I just want good function which they have delivered in spades. I know there has been a discussion on the technical difference(s) between spinning reel seats and fly rod seats, and I cannot find that discussion nor do I remember anything about that discussion. Can someone help me out with this?

Also, at the time I built those rods, there was a popular set of components for installing a fighting butt. One was a butt plate so to speak that fit into the end of the reel seat that had a threaded fenestration dead center. It mated with a bulbous cork fighting butt (looked like a small light bulb) that had a built in threaded stem. If you wanted to use the fighting butt, all you had to do was thread it into the end of the plate/reel seat. If you chose not to use the fighting butt, you didn't. I actually liked this arrangement, but I have not seen it or anything like it in modern times. Is there anything like this available now, or something close to it? I have seen some where the fighting butt simply inserts into its mated end, but the threaded version sort of gave me more confidence that it wouldn't simply slide its way out and end up at the bottom of the sea! :-)


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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: May 25, 2024 07:57PM

I used a few of those removable fighting butts many years ago. What I learned, I rarely removed them and if I did it was a good chance I would lose it or have to take my mind off fishing and on parts patrol to ensure I didn't lose it. Lastly, because it is an add on, it screws up the selection of rod tubes to compensate for the extra length when installed, again then parts patrol to remember to take it next time I used the rod if I removed it to fit the tubes I had. Schneider's to the left has them.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (94.140.11.---)
Date: May 25, 2024 09:25PM

Hey Ernie,
REC components has all you need - AND their fly rod seats are ported to match their grips. [reelseats.com]

They have the hardware you need if you desire a removable fighting butt - actually two types.

My favorite reel seat is the basic RSLL for larger weight blanks - and the RSLS for lighter blanks. IMO they hold the reel foot the best.
I also use the REC Recoil guides - available in single foot and snakes. Lightest available.
If you have questions call Ryan at 860 749 3476
Herb

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 26, 2024 06:56AM

I agree with Spencer on removable vs fixed fighting butts. I really like the Alps seats, RCAH aluminum for 8's , 9's, and 10's.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: May 26, 2024 09:49AM

Thank you all for your input. Some gave me their opinion on their favorite fly rod reel sets, but my question remains...is there in fact a difference between a fly rod reel seat vs a spinning rod reel seat other than in terminology?

I also assume that the fighting butts you guys are fond of fit OVER the butt end of the blank rather than BEHIND the butt end of the blank, thereby maintaining the original overall length of the blank. For me, I'd rather have my reel positioned at the very butt end of the blank. I think it creates much better balance. Whether placed a couple of inches further toward the tip really makes much of a difference in that respect I really don't know. But it makes my head feel better when the reel is as far aft as possible.

The reason I like removable fighting butts is that, in actuality, I rarely use fighting butts, but prefer to use them selectively when I want to. Whether it fits over or behind the butt end of the blank, if it's permanent...it's permanent. Again, thanks for everyone's input.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: May 26, 2024 01:19PM

You can build an arbor from a production foam arbor that fits your 16 mm DPSM and put the hardware from these fighting butts inside it, than build as normal.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Ernie Blum (---)
Date: May 26, 2024 10:31PM

I give up.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (94.140.11.---)
Date: May 26, 2024 11:13PM

Ernie
Spinning/conventional reel seats are larger ad heavier than fly seats.
Can they be interchanged - if the reel foot fits - why not.
But in 20 yrs - more and better designed components are available.
So, why not take advantage of the better designs?

As suggested before - look at the REC components site.
It will sove your sear and fighting butt issues.
Herb
CTS

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 27, 2024 07:16AM

If you want the reel farther down the blank use a downlocking reel seat. You would not have a recess in the bottom of the grip for this seat design. Not sure how to do the removable fighting butt, but there has to be a way.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Les Cline (---)
Date: May 27, 2024 09:14AM

I think a tube-type spinning seat could easily be used down locking to get the reel as close to the end as possible. The Fuji DPS seat looks ready to go with a short terminal end. The SKM seat is a skeleton-type if you'd find that useful. (I don't like skeleton seats for myself.) On 7+ weights, the gram difference is not so noticeable to me. And they are plenty strong!

A small butt grip, or end piece, could be ported to fit over the terminal end/hood of a spinning seat like above - or simply add the butt grip to the end of the hood. A 1/2 inch nub of composite cork/rubber, or stabilized wood/acrylic would finish it out. No fuss. I have done this on a few builds myself and it works great for me.

I agree with Spencer 100% about fighting butts - I have found no NEED to make a removable version. I purchase or make a rod tube to fit the rod. My rod's needs come first. If I WANT a removable fighting butt for reasons I have determined that fit my purposes, then I will make it so - and work around the rest. "Cool Factor" does count sometimes; "Check this out! I have a removeable fighting butt!" Ten seconds of fame and accolades is my record so far. Ha!

I am not really sure how much a fighting butt comes into play on my freshwater builds. They are usually only a couple inches long at most, don't help me two-hand cast a 7 to 9 weight rod (non-Spey), and I don't usually stick the end of the rod into my gut or hip when fighting a fish. (The exception was sailfish in Costa Rica using a 12-weight....and I recommend a fly rod fore grip as well for the BIG fish. Your forearms will thank you after your knees stop shaking.)

Glad you are getting back to fly rods, Ernie! They are like an old friend I lost touch with for reasons I cannot now recall.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: david taylor (---)
Date: May 27, 2024 11:19AM

Just my opinions, but:

Removable fighting butt is a waste. Also, it is far easier to go too big in fighting butt. Just get one that is pre drilled to fit over the butt of your rod and epoxy it on last after the reel seat. Boom.

Reel seat depends on how much you want to spend, weight of the rod, and if you are using in the salt or not. I would not use a spin seat on a fly blank. Go fly seat.

If 8 wt or higher and you are going salt, I Iike the Alps Triangle seats. Pac-Bay Channel Lock for fly rods is a good, inexpensive reel seat, but don't use on less than an 8 wt. If you do, get the smaller, one locking nut version, not the 4 version.

American Tackle 3K Fly Reel Seat 3KFS is really a nice one, and has a carbon insert, so can be fresh or salt, and is good for 6 weight to maybe 9 weight. I have on a freshwater 6 weight and it is great.

For a fighting butt you just move the reel seat up the blank a bit to expose enough of the blank's butt on which to epoxy on your fighting butt, and of course leave off the butt cap. Buy a predrilled fighting butt. I like the one's with the rubber on the end for durability.

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Re: Reel seat and fighting butt questions.
Posted by: Joe Ledbetter (---.biz6.spectrum.com)
Date: June 04, 2024 02:59AM

I built a little 4.5' spinning rod for my wife a while back, and used a fly rod seat with a small Diawa closed face spinning reel. Several people saw it and asked for one but wanted larger reel seats so I built a few more and on those I used Fuji Deluxe spinning seats. I don't recall the ID but they were small. Anywho, I used the same reel seat on them but trimmed them to different lengths depending on what kind of reel foot I had to accommodate. I tested them all before letting them go and I don't recall there being enough difference between them to be noteworthy. In my limited experience with small reel seats, I can't see much difference if the seat performs to expectations.
As for adding a screw in fighting butt, I've got a couple of fighting butts exactly as you described but made from aluminum. It seems like it would be simple enough for a decent job shop to make something from aluminum like it to fit in the butt of your Fuji seat, or maybe have the hard parts 3D printed from some glue friendly high impact plastic, then add a fighting butt to it. Rather than have them mount any cork EVA etc, have them make a stud threaded for the endcap on one end and the other end with an arbor to build on.

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