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Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Johan Ooms (---)
Date: January 30, 2024 01:13PM

Hello,
I live in Europe and I fish for carp. (8 to 35 lbs)
Contrary to most European carp anglers I don’t like a casting tool.
I prefer fishing with a float in the margins.
That style of fishing is not popular anymore and you hardly can find suitable rods for the job.
Recently I purchased a cheap 10 floater rod with a stated test curve of 2.25 lbs.
The blank has nice through action (I need that to control the fish near snags) but this rod comes with 5+1 oversized guides.
30-25-20-16-12 and 10 top guide.
When I put the rod under tension the rod looks like a series of bowstrings.
I would like to put new and more guides on the rod to better support the trough action of this rod.

I would like to keep the costs down.
What type of guides in what kind of spacing would you recommend.
I know this kind of fishing is not done in the USA but I am curious how you guys would build up such a rod for my requirements.

A few stats
10 foot rod
Line 12 lbs mono (0.30 mm)
Test curve : 2.25 lbs = casting weight of 2 Oz
Through action/ parabolic action/ slow action

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Re: Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: January 30, 2024 02:30PM

Go to the Library here and find two articles near the bottom of the listing, New Guide Concept Primer and Static Guide Placement. I bet the reduction guides you will need for the NGC layout are in the guides already on the rod already, so no expense there, you just need to fill in the tip with guides that match as close as you can to those, just do the best guess you can, I would use 7 mm running guides to be on the safe side for cold weather. Everything is in the articles, just remember that the rod is loaded by its own independent line so the line that positions of the guides has no real weight or restriction when you do your layout. Any further questions just come back.

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Re: Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Johan Ooms (---)
Date: January 31, 2024 10:21AM

Thank you for the reply.
I already had a look at Ngc and KR.
I will certainly to static guide test since it is my first build

It is quite different from the current trend in carp rod.
6 guides 40/50 -12

The traditional European style would be
25/20/16/19/10/19/8/8 + tip

Visually I like the traditional style but I might try the ngc.
I would like to get the but ring as close to the reel as possible because the rod bends very much in the but section.

Am I correct that in the ngc style I could use a taller 30 guide and place it a bit more near the reel?
Would size 8 low profile running guides work in this concept.
I am a bit afraid of weed getting stuck in the top rings.

For the guides I am considering
Fuji LSV 3 legs
Cheapest option but I believe smaller ID

American tackle air guides
More expensive
Super light
Largest ID
No ceramics but no idea if they will groove over time (pac bay minima’s are specked on carp rods though)

Seaguide
Ceramic
Medium ID

Most expensive
3leg XBG
Or
3 leg and single leg combo
BOSLS/BTLSG

What guides woud you advise?
When striking I need to pick up a bow of slack line (between rod and float/bobber).
Would I feel the effect of the lighter AT guides?

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Re: Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Les Cline (---)
Date: January 31, 2024 12:53PM

Johan,

You are very much on track with your thinking if you have done some studying on the KR Concept and NGC. These principles and designs are based around line management, reduced weight, and casting efficiency. The basic principles will work with any brand of guide you want to use - however, some brands work better than others for my favorite, Fuji's KR Concept.. One person I highly respect as a builder tried to mimic the KR Concept with Am Tac guides, and found that it was very difficult if not impossible. That is not saying Am Tac guides are not excellent, however, if you are interested in a KR Concept build, the frame heights are not optimal for this configuration.

I am a fan of the Fuji KR Concept because the important Reduction Train Guides were designed to work together in groups of three or four. Since your rod is long and limber in action, I would look at the "3 choking guides + high profile belly guide specification" found on one of the Fuji charts on-line. (I will try and find that link and post it here.) [www.fujitackle.eu]

This chart recommends two potential reduction train set ups for a rod like you describe:

A.) KL-20H; KL-10H; KL-7M; and KL-6L (for mono up to #12)
This group of four reduction guides would be followed by one or two KB series running guides and then KT running guides up to size 6 rings on out to the tip.

and

B.) KL-25H; KL-12H; KL-8M; and KL-7L (for mono up to #14) Same as above for the KB and KT guides up to a size 7 ring. You can always increase the ring size of the tip top if you need for weed control.

Seaguide also makes a series that mimics the Fuji guides closely with their XOHG; XOMG; and XOLG guides. Pac Bay Match guides also work.

On a ten foot rod, I would recommend around 12 or 13 guides total + tip top - or up to 14 if my two-line static test showed the rod needed it.

My Quick Initial Set-up for spacing goes like this:
Temporarily place all the guides with a mind to move them if needed.
1.Place Butt Guide (1st guide) around 20 inches from the spool axel tip at mid stroke.
2.Place Choke Guide (4th guide) around 20 inches from Butt Guide. (Since your rod is a 10-footer, the choke guide may be placed further out. Fuji recommends measuring from the butt guide to the rod tip, multiply by 4.5, and placing the choker this distance from the butt guide.)
3. Place remaining reduction guides between butt and choker. Bullseye them when viewed through the butt guide.
4. Place a KT running guide 3.5 to 4 inches from the tip top.
5. Progressively space the remaining running guides between the choker and running guide placed near tip top.
6. Move ANY guide as needed to get the spacing you want.
7. Static test and/or test cast. Adjust guides again as needed.

Or, start with the Angler's Resource KR GPS Calculator (found in the left margin). This will give you a solid starting point for placement. If you want to use the 3+1 train, simply place the fourth guide in the same location as the Choker guide recommended spacing. 'Bullseye' these guides.

You can also use a line from the spool axel tip to the Choker to help with spacing between the butt guide and choker guide. Move the guides to line up with the line and bullseye each other.

Hope this helps you! I enjoy carp fishing. Very sporting quarry (can be wary as any trout and strong as some saltwater fish).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2024 01:28PM by Les Cline.

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Re: Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Michael Tarr (73.137.237.---)
Date: January 31, 2024 08:37PM


The diagram is KR recommend guide train for a 10’ light seabass rod, I think it would work for your needs.
Use the link and follow the instructions on how to place the guides.
[www.guidesnblanks.com]

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Re: Suggestion for guides on through action carp rod
Posted by: Johan Ooms (---)
Date: February 01, 2024 03:14PM

Fiuji guides for KR cost more that what I paid for the rod. Seaguide alternative in not available for me.
Today I salvaged some rod guides from an old rod and will use that to do some static testing.

I will start with replacing a broken guide on another rod first. Going to try to use gorilla clear glue instead of epoxy.

I would also like to replace a reel seat. (Had plastic reel rings in the past)
Would a layer of wrapped thread + all purpose glue also work instead of epoxy?

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