I'm building an 8 weight fly rod that will be mainly used in saltwater. I purchased Rec RSNX double foot snake guides to hopefully not have any corrosion issues. It is my first time working with these. I've read that some builders use a Forhan or other locking wrap to make them more secure. Just getting these squirrely things taped in place proved to be a challenge for my fat fingers. I do not intend on using any CP, just Gen 4 epoxy. Is it necessary or strongly advised to use a locking wrap?
Thank you,
Fred

No locking wrap is needed on double foot snake guides. Only on single foot guides.

RSNX guides wear well in salt, but they are bendy so that makes them a little harder to tape down on the rod before wrapping. You will also want to sand, grind or file down the feet to get a nice taper for wrapping and make it easier to transition from blank to guide foot. I often use a sharpening stone that is cheap at harbor freight. Dremel works great if you have one.

Fred,
Careful that you don't alter the shape of the RSNX's. They feet have a tendency to bend towards each other - thereby increasing the height of the eye.
Make sure the guide is "relaxed when you stary wrapping.
You may want to switch to the RSFX - easier.
Herb

They can be tricky to wrap as the second foot will rise above the bank slightly after wrapping the first guide. I use a 1/16 “, pinstripe tape to hold the guide flat while wrapping. Also they do need some grinding at the side and nose of the guides especially if using silk thread.

David,
I have read that some have experienced a foot of the Rec recoil snakes being pulled out from under the wrap from a knot or tangle getting caught in it with a running fish. I'm familiar with using locking wraps on single foot guides but read of at least one person putting locks on these Rec double foot guides. He would cut the tag end long & then wrap the feet posts before pulling under the guide wrap. That seems very tedious to me & would like to avoid such.

David/Mike,
I did dress the ends of the feet to taper down towards the blank. The feet also have a flare to them side to side as they get wider toward the tips. I did not remove the flare as I'm figuring that is there to prevent the scenario above. Should remove the flare as well?

Herb,
I toyed with the idea of using single foot guides but thought snakes would allow a possible tangle through easier a single foot. My next build will be a CTS if funds allow.

Locking wraps are intended primarily for single foot guides.

..........

If you have an issue with feet pulling out from under a wrap, especially on hard running fish and or heavily loaded rods, then, of course use a locking wrap.

You say that it is tedious.

Of course it is tedious, but how many guide are you wrapping - 5-20? So, it takes an extra or several extra hours to do the wrap. Over the 20 year life of a rod, how many minutes per outing does 5 extra hours amount to?

If you want to use a locking wrap, then by all means use it.

By the way, have you considered doing an underwrap for just the middle part of each guide before doing the main over wrap of the guides.

You would be doing a partial locking wrap, very quickly by building up the space between each end of the guide first - before doing the main wrap.

Best wishes.

roger wilson Wrote:
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Roger thank you for the reply.

> If you have an issue with feet pulling out from
> under a wrap, especially on hard running fish and
> or heavily loaded rods, then, of course use a
> locking wrap.

I have not had an issue with feet pulling ever. However I do not own any rods with the guides stated. I was looking for opinions from from those with experience with the Rec snakes. I did research the topic prior to asking but came to no definitive answer.
>
> You say that it is tedious.

I hope I did not come off sounding whiney when I said tedious. My eyesight is not what it used to be & sometimes I suffer from hand tremors. I greatly enjoy building rods but some of the steps are more difficult for me. I'm sure if I were to build rods more often I would become more adept at these troublesome areas.
>
> Of course it is tedious, but how many guide are
> you wrapping - 5-20? So, it takes an extra or
> several extra hours to do the wrap. Over the 20
> year life of a rod, how many minutes per outing
> does 5 extra hours amount to?

I cannot argue with your logic here. As my wife's uncle used to say, "the lazy man does the most work".
>
> If you want to use a locking wrap, then by all
> means use it.

It's not that I wanted to use a locking wrap, but wanting to glean advise from accomplished builders like you.
>
> By the way, have you considered doing an
> underwrap for just the middle part of each guide
> before doing the main over wrap of the guides.
> You would be doing a partial locking wrap, very
> quickly by building up the space between each end
> of the guide first - before doing the main wrap.

I had not thought of an underwrap. That is a possibility. I was however trying to keep the build as light as possible. I doubt it would make any difference in weight except for maybe in my head.
>
> Best wishes.

I'm still unsure about tapering the feet on these guides. As I stated above "I did dress the ends of the feet to taper down towards the blank. The feet also have a flare to them side to side as they get wider toward the tips. I did not remove the flare as I'm figuring that is there to prevent the scenario above. Should remove the flare as well?"

Any insight on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again,
Fred

Fred,

If it were me, I would leave the guide foot flare as long as it did not stick out too wide from the blank. The wider foot will provide some torsional stability, especially on the heavier/wider section of the blank.

If the flares stick out too wide on the tip section, I would carefully file them narrower - take off only what is needed.. Round off sharp edges with fine grit sand paper (I use 800 wet-dry paper).

Fred,

Why would you use a locking wrap on a double footed snake guide, or any double foot guide for that matter?

..........

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fred,
>
> Why would you use a locking wrap on a double
> footed snake guide, or any double foot guide for
> that matter?
>
> ........
Having never worked with Rec recoil snakes, I thought it prudent to do some research in case there were different techniques used with them. IE maybe not use CP or something to that extent. I read about at least one person stated having issues with the feet pulling out. That was their solution, not my idea. I figured the wealth of knowledge here would put me straight (and it has).
Thank you all for your help.
Fred

Recoil guides are very pliable compared to other guides. They will bend quite a bit and then return to their original orientation. Thus, in the rare case where you may break a traditional snake-type guide by hitting it on something, snagging it on a bush, etc, the Recoil would not break but potentially pull loose from the wrapping epoxy. I think the chances of this are minimal and in no way would warrant a locking thread wrap.

Sometimes a foot will pull loose due to the thread not being wrapped far enough up the foot, or the tunnel area of the wrap not being sufficiently sealed with epoxy.