Well,
My students have there guides positioned on the rods now and are starting to do the wrapping. Next big question for them is what to cover the wraps with. I have been doing some testing with CP, Epoxy and Man O War Varnish on Madiera thread. The results have not been very satisfying. I haven't finished a rod in some time but don't remember having this kind of issues in the past. All the threads seem to go very dark when wrapped on a dark blank. Even with Color Preserver the blank color seems to be bleeding through and making the thread so dark its almost impossible to see the original color.

What could be the problem.

Thanks.

Which CP did you use? How many coats? When using CP, I generally put on at least 2 coats. Without CP your thread will darken considerably on a dark blank. I personally prefer the look of my wraps without CP.

Do not thin your color preserver. Water won't preserve the thread color.

.............

Fred used ProCoat. I applied a single coat, pretty heavy, let it soak in then removed the excess. After drying I applied Epoxy and got bad results. Some parts of the wrap were fine, but the rod bled through others. It was better under Epoxy than Varnish. It was hard to tell the difference between the varnish without CP and that with. The lighter colors still had the "splotchy" appearance.

Tom, no I didn't thin the CP but did thin the Varnish 50% so it's like water. Used mineral spirits to thin with. Everything I have read said to thin the Varnish. I may try to apply it straight and see what I get with that. So far my results are very disappointing, but pretty sure there's an answer either newer CP or new Varnish and Epoxy. Not sure how old any are. As I have said in previous threads, I have been away from the bench for a few years.

John Wright Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well,
> My students have there guides positioned on the
> rods now and are starting to do the wrapping.
> Next big question for them is what to cover the
> wraps with. I have been doing some testing with
> CP, Epoxy and Man O War Varnish on Madiera thread.
> The results have not been very satisfying. I
> haven't finished a rod in some time but don't
> remember having this kind of issues in the past.
> All the threads seem to go very dark when wrapped
> on a dark blank. Even with Color Preserver the
> blank color seems to be bleeding through and
> making the thread so dark its almost impossible to
> see the original color.
>
> What could be the problem.
>
> Thanks.

The thread you are using has a couple things you need to deal with. First, it has a lubricant added to it to help it slide thru needle and will most time cause Fish Eyes so you need a CP. Some say to put a piece of that thread in the finish when mixing to counteract this. Never had much success doing this. Second I use that thread for all my weaves and use a good CP to keep spool color. See latest weave of a Bengal Tiger in the latest issue of RodMaker.

Kerry,

Been using Madiera for years and never experienced Fish-Eye effect. I have found that the color makes a big difference in how well the CP covers. Most of the time I need two and sometimes three coats to ensure true, or close to true color. However, if I want a "translucent" effect I don't use any CP and the color sometimes remains pretty true with a little blending of the blank color. I am in the process of conducting a series of tests with CP and Varnish finish as well as epoxy. I have several old arrow shafts that I have made several wraps of 5 different colors. Then I either coat the wraps with 0, 1, 2, or 3 coats of CP. One arrow is then covered with Man-O-War varnish, the other arrow is covered with Epoxy. Should prove interesting. So far the results of this test are much better than my first test. Only one coat of CP is questionable, 2 is good, and sometimes three coats result and a very true color.

So guess CP is necessary to preserve the color, unless there is a reason to want a translucent finish. Very interesting.

I'd sure be interested in how you manage to never get fish eyes with Madeira thread. I love the stuff, the piece of sacrificial piece never worked for me either. But two or three coats of cp does the trick. It would be great to share your technique with the folks I help.

Since I try to make my Color Change Weaves match, as close as I can, Mother Nature things, I want the CP to help me keep the selected spool color. There is a reason for all the different synthetic finishes out there for fishing rods so they stand up to the environment. So I wouldn't be using Varnishes unless you are trying to duplicate a historic item, and then I doubt a CP was used.

Tried pro kote cp also. Seems to need like 48 hours to cure or you get bleeding.. seems to get Milky haze finish with multiple coats. It's OK

Ray cotes stuff is awesome. Down to my last bottle and I'm lost if I can't get more
It's clear. one light coat light coat and 24 hour cure. Awesome stuff. But to be honest it's a mom a pop stuff and I dunno what it is.