I started trout fishing with a five foot Garcia Conalon rod with a Tennessee handle and built a lot of brown Fenwick ultra-lites also with Tennessee handles and got used to the feel of those handles, but always hated the rings coming loose at exactly the wrong time. Those handles had an outside diameter of .92 inches and the size 20 fuji seat gave the closest thing I could find to that feel, so my choice of a size 20 seat is purely based on the feel I got used to. I have built dozens of rods with size 20 seat for my trout fishing buddies with never even a comment about the size of the seat. Compared to the weight of the reel the extra weight in the seat is minimal. Every trout rod I've built in the last 30 years has looked like the one below:
[www.rodbuilding.org]
It's all what you get used to, there ain't no single right way.

Uplocking! Like it. Front "grip" because of its diameter is really a nice "ramp."

I’m not sure if this relates or not, but when I took up golf, I went straight to custom fitted clubs and lessons from the start. Grip size was a very important fitting measurement, and, in golf clubs, 1/16” of an inch was a full measurement change. Now, when taking lessons, the instructor taught me that the power came from my fingers, NOT my palms. I had to learn how to hold and swing with the club grip in my fingers, not deathly gripped with my entire hand. Once I got the hang of it, my balls were popping significantly farther than when I first started.

I kind of feel it’s similar in casting. I do terribly with “palm swell” type of grips, and feel like I have a lot more control, speed, and distance with handles that allow my fingers to control the grip. A larger handle may “feel” better initially, and you may even be able to use your whole hand to hold it with a death grip better, yet that may not necessarily be the best for casting. Maybe casting techniques influence what type of grip works better, but I, personally, prefer control from my fingers rather than my palms. I feel like the rod is more sensitive in my grip this way too. Just food for thought.

you will know when the grip is too small when you have hand pain after a long day with the rod in your hand.

John Santos Wrote:
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>... A larger handle may “feel”
> better initially, and you may even be able to use
> your whole hand to hold it with a death grip
> better, yet that may not necessarily be the best
> for casting. Maybe casting techniques influence
> what type of grip works better, but I, personally,
> prefer control from my fingers rather than my
> palms. I feel like the rod is more sensitive in
> my grip this way too. Just food for thought.

John...I think your on to something.
I have a spinning rod I use for square bill crank baits. Its an MHX CB841 with an American Tackle G2 Apex (16) reel seat.
I had no problem fishing this rod consistently for two straight days this fall.

I built a rod for someone using the Apex seat. It was surprisingly comfortable (and light!). I couldn’t put it down, until he came by and picked it up.

I know a lot of big guys with big hands using 16 seats. I'm afraid to tell them they're too small.

A LOT of people fish rods with seats and grips that are way too small. They just do not know it because they have not tried something better. If they fish factory rods they almost surely fish with seats that are too small. I have clients with high end premium saltwater fly rods with grips that are way too small. Instead of being afraid to tell them I do. I put them on something better and after some hours they know it and will not go back. They thank me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2023 07:07PM by Mike Ballard.

Maybe we may be talking about different things, as you mentioned fly fishing. I was a serious bass tournament fisherman for 35 years, and, believe me, I looked for every advantage I could get. That included over analyzing the equipment I had. One of the reasons I went to building rods was to have better equipment (and more specialized) than what I could get. For ME, smaller was better than bigger, but the size of standard handles from store rods served its purpose and had the least influence on rod performance (if anything, reel seats were more important - obviously in fly casting reel seats are less relevant). Casting is where the handle size could be comfortable or not, yet, in 12 hour practice days, 9 hour tournaments, and some years with over 200 days on the water, I’ve never had hand pain or fatigue. The most time is spent working the bait, not casting and bass fishermen hold reel seats, not the handle. Bursitis in shoulder and knees but never an issue with hands. We may all be overthinking this handle aspect, but my thoughts come from my experience (bass fishing), not client feedback. (I’m not a big guy, but my glove size is a large).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2023 10:14PM by John Santos.

Mike Ballard Wrote:
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> A LOT of people fish rods with seats and grips
> that are way too small. They just do not know it
> because they have not tried something better. If
> they fish factory rods they almost surely fish
> with seats that are too small. I have clients with
> high end premium saltwater fly rods with grips
> that are way too small. Instead of being afraid to
> tell them I do. I put them on something better and
> after some hours they know it and will not go
> back. They thank me.

Mike...this story is sounding a little fishy!

Factories use undersized seats and grips because they are cheaper. If they save 50 cents on ever reel seat or grip and they build a half million rods per year the savings add up. Fishermen get used to seeing rods look a certain way and think this is the way they are supposed to be. 99.9% of fishermen buy factory rods and they use whatever comes on those rods. How would they know if a larger seat or grip would work better for them? They have no way to try anything different than what comes on the rods they buy off the shelf. Custom rod builders that just copy factory rods are not really building anything better.

Respectfully, my thoughts came from personal experience using, tweaking and improving. Sometimes things don’t need to be “improved”. It should be a personal preference, not a builder preference, or opinion. The guy that mentored me on building was a serious fly fisherman. He had a bunch of rods and handles built up to have clients use under his observation to find what preferences they had for a custom build. He was also a fly casting instructor so he also made sure you were using the correct form before building around his clients’ preferences.

Reel seats come in sizes to match blank sizes, but people can mix and match to find their preferences. Cork starts out at the same size, then sanded to the finished size. There is no savings to rod companies going to smaller handles. If anything, it’s costing them more money to spend more time sanding something smaller (and going through more sandpaper). Just food for thought.

Commercial rod companies do not turn their cork grips. Not even the premium fly rod companies.They buy them pre-formed. But in terms of saving money I am talking about casting and spinning reel seats. The larger the seat the higher the cost. Factories build for looks with an eye on cost.

I’ll be the odd man out, I prefer a size 16 seat on my trout and panfish rods, and vary between 16-17 seats for bass rods whatever I feel like using. The 17 is probably the biggest I’d use personally, I just don’t think anything bigger would be comfortable for me.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the span of your hand, with the hand spread, the distance from the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger? Mine is 9 inches.

Mike, when I said I was afraid I was being facetious. Gotta remember not to do that.

Evan, So all your grips are custom made to match your reel seats? Because pre-made grips are usually in the 27 mm range, if you can hold on to them, you have already answered your concerns.

Many years ago, 40 - 50, It was suggested by someone that if you go to a place that sells wood dowels, to pick up a 3' dowel and grip it on one end and have someone pull down on the other end. You will soon learn what diameter feels most comfortable in your hand when stressed.

I have no argument with anyone's personal choices. The point IS 100% about personal choices when it comes to custom rod building. Build what you like. Share what works for you and why. That is all a person can control.

Wouldn't the only time the OD range of pre-made grips would be a factor is if someone were using a Tennessee handle on their spinning rods?

Speaking freshwater bass and panfish rods, here. Not big heavy boat rods n such.