I used fuji ultra poly in a light grey on a grey metallic blank. The thread is noticeablely darker directly over the Tunnels. Their is good epoxy runout under the frames. Not too much. Not too little. Not worried about it, just curious as to why the color change? Kind of don't want it to happen again. I have some ideas, but thought I'd ask. Did not have any luck with the search box. I did use gen 4 low build and it looks amazing minus the "zebra stripe". Light color threads appear to be more translucent? Is this where CP might help? My sources tell me to shy away from CP.

jonathan,

IME, lighter hued, non-CP threads will show the color below them when epoxy is applied; in this case the guide foot and/or the spaces on either side of it.. Is that part of your idea of what happened?

CP, does not make a wrap weaker, IME, but it does make guide removal a lot easier if it is ever needed. Some don't like CP or color-fast thread because of the aesthetics, not because it makes the guide "less strong." Non-cp nylon thread can have a sheen and translucence that is appealing - though the color will typically darken when epoxy is applied. (Make a test stick and experiment.)

Short answer is that CP, or color-fast thread, will help keep the color consistent on your guide wraps.

As Les alluded to, the reason for the darker color where the tunnels are is because the thread isn't directly against the blank. That means the back ground is darker, and that darkness is showing through the translucency of the thread.

Lighter color threads show it more readily, but even with darker color threads, you can and will have a color shift based on the background color you're wrapping over.

I've yet to use color fast thread, but what Les is saying about the use of color preserver on regular nylon thread, stopping finish from changing the translucency of thread, is correct. The CP seals the thread so applying finish over a wrap with CP will stop the color as well as the threads transparency, from changing.

Something Les mentioned is the reason I have yet to use CP on a rod I've built. All the color preservers I have tried, dull the sheen that nylon threads have. IMO it makes the wraps appear to have less depth. I will say I saw a newer color preserver from the makers of Gen 4 finish called Vivid. Looking at before and after pictures of thread its been applied to, there is very little color shift caused by the CP itself, and the sheen of nylon thread is still there. Mud Hole carries it, and I have a bottle of it in my cart as I type this.

I actually choose thread colors based on the fact that there is a color and translucency shift after finish is applied. You can come up with some beautiful colors this way.

Jonathan,
Perfect!!

You did the perfect guide wrap and finish application to have a really great looking rod.

Unless, specifically requested by a client, I never use CP.

In my eyes, CP changes the appearance on a rod that is not to my liking.

I very much appreciate the semi transparent look that one gets by using non NCP thread along with no CP.

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I do think that the statement by Less is a bit of an oxy moron.
i.e. --
CP, does not make a wrap weaker, IME, but it does make guide removal a lot easier if it is ever needed.
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If CP does not make a wrap weaker, then why does it make guide removal easier.

i.e.
Simply put - if it is easier to remove a guide; then by definition, the guide is more secure on the blank when one does NOT use CP, as opposed to the weaker guide adhesion on the blank by the use of CP.

Take care

As in many things in rod building and elsewhere, things are passed on mouth to mouth without the person giving the information actually ever seeing it happen. I have personally not seen or ever had a rod returned because of a guide failure due to CP usage and I myself use it a lot on my personal rods because I pick specific colors I want preserved along with the glow from the thread. I also do not need to be concerned with bubbles or micro bubbles and other finish maladies because the thread is already pre-sealed. Don't get me wrong, I also use no CP, but I have no aversion to doing one or the other.

I’ve never used CP so I’m not going to act like the arbiter of CP, but I can’t help but be suspicious of statements that insinuate the integrity of the wraps are somehow compromised by the use of CP. There are builders that use CP instead of thread finish. That makes me think if it secures the wrap by itself, then there’s no way it weakens a wrap when the wrap is finished with thread finish on top of the CP. Also, wraps are not hard to remove when thread finish is used. Hit it with heat for a few seconds and the stuff peels right off.

Again, however, I’ve not used the stuff so the above is nothing more than my pondering what I’ve read about others’ experiences.

Agree with Spencer. Everything he said, but especially : never had a wrap failure using CP. We have a tendency to want the "strongest." But fail to consider that there very well may be a "strong enough" that is less strong than "strongest." With "strongest" may come some characteristics that one does not want. For example, a drastic color change in the thread. Or a highly difficult guide removal process, if that is a priority.

Am I the only one that noticed the OP'er says he used Fuji Ultra then asked whether CP might help? Implying that he used Ultra without CP?

One can minimize the influence of the blank color on the finished wrap by using CP and packing very tightly.

Best bet for constant color if one wants to shy away from CP is to use noCP thread, not Ultra. Oh darn, that doesn't give the same sheen as Ultra. Another darned tradeoff.