David - Thanks, for the measurements and link for reference! I went back and reread this thread and have a clearer picture of what you experienced. I missed a couple nuances. The pictures make clear that the area behind the threaded barrel is a larger diameter than the threaded barrel.

So the OEM XO grip comes with a 1.75 inch thread? And you have now cut down your threads to 1.125 inches to fit your hood and extra bling lock nut?

For comparative purposes, I measured the threads on a no-foregrip seat I made for a spin rod using the Fuji DNPS seat. I, too, trimmed off the threads sticking out past the standard hood and lock nut (no extra bling). The threads measured 1.125 inches. How did you have room for the extra bling nut? Or did you decide to leave it off?

I just bought and received an MB 725 X-Ray C6O2. Butt mics out at 0.485 inches. Tip at 0.069 inches. (catalogue says 0.53 for butt)

I also got the SJ 703 X-Ray C6O2. Butt measures 0.490. Tip is 0.070 inches. (catalogue says 0.52 for butt)

The butts of both these rods seem a bit short of the catalogue measurements. I'm not that worried about it and like both blanks. I will build them out as spinning rods and was considering the XO grips..

The CCS for the rods I received:

MB 725 X-Ray C6O2:
IP = 244 pennies or 610 grams
AA = 75

SJ 703 X-Ray C6O2:
IP = 135 pennies or 337.5 grams
AA = 71/72

Thanks again for the info!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2023 02:15PM by Les Cline.

Les, yep .... my thread barrel is cut down to 1.125" Here is a picture of the finished product. [www.rodbuilding.org]

I am definitely leaving the bling nut on. That nut is .250" wide. The nut / hood combination I have using is 1" wide, and it goes down a little past the length of the thread barrel. The hood / lock nut you have is probably wider than the one I am have.

I too have a MB 725 C6O2 blank ordered, so it's nice to see the dimensions and the CCS numbers you got for your blank. That IP of 610 grams is kind of an in between number for me. Meaning in between building it as a spinning rod, or building it as a casting rod. Since I don't use spinning rods a lot, I'll more than likely build it as a casting rod. From what I've read from those that have built rods on the MB 725 C6O2 blank ..... they are very special blanks as far as sensitivity goes. Really looking forward to building on it.

Also a question? Are you familiar with the finish of the non sanded X ray blanks? If so ..... how does the finish on the C6O2 blanks compare to the finish of the original X rays? From looking at the pictures of the finish of the C6O2 blanks on the web site, it looks like the ridges are barely noticeable. I don't think I want to be sanding on one of the C6O2 blanks like I do on the original finish X ray blanks.

Just curious how they feel and if you think wrapping and packing guide wraps would be difficult with the finish on the blanks?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2023 04:28PM by David Baylor.

Dave the rod looks great! Quite the process. Now I know why I love cork. Lol. Merry X-mas you guys.

David,

The finish on the C6O2 seems very similar or the same as on the original, un-sanded X-Rays (and my Delta blanks, too). One thing I noticed is that the ridges feel rougher when running my fingers from the butt of the blank toward the tip. I figured this was because of the direction the cellophane sealing tape was spun on before it went into the oven. Sort of like rubbing a steel file from end to end with one way feeling more coarse....but not that extreme.

I read a suggestion on the forum about using size B thread on blanks with an un-sanded finish, but I have always used A and was a bit more careful to pack the threads more often. I've not had any problems with getting the thread to cover well.

I compared my CCS measurements to those I saw posted elsewhere - and my IP was on the light side for both blanks. As I mentioned, the butt diameter on these two blanks was also on the thin side....and the tip on the 703 is larger than a 4 (probably a 4.5 like the 725). This may have contributed to my lower CCS numbers. Like I said, I'm not complaining and like the feel of these blanks even if they are a bit off of the listed specs. Spiffy sticks for sure. I bet you'll like yours.

Now you've got me thinking about making a casting rod out of the 725 for the same reasons you mentioned. I even did an on-paper guide layout for both spin and cast as I was ambivalent. Also, I thought about trying the (spin) KR Concept with Three Reduction Train Guides + High Profile Belly Guide. Something different. Would you go with a 20-10-5.5 or 16-8-5.5 if planning on throwing #20 braid? I think I could get away with the 16 set.

Lynn,

Cork IS a great handle material! Happy Holidays to you, too!

LOL Lynn, I love me some cork too !!! But only the grips I build. LOL Kidding ..... kinda lol Thanks for the compliment about this XO skeleton grip rod. I've enjoyed the process actually. The way I have the blank tied into the grip wasn't hard to do, and is super solid. It really is going to look sweet when I'm done. The wraps are going to go along with the colors of the Vanford reel. Black main wrap, 4 turn red metallic trim band, and 2 turn silver metallic accent wrap in the middle of the main wrap.

Les, thanks for the comparison of the C6O2 finish to the original X rays, and your Delta blanks. I wonder how crazy people would think I'd be if I sanded the C6O2 blank so it was smooth? LOL. I really don't like the feel of that finish, and I seriously doubt if sanding them smooth changes anything about the "crispness" of the blank. It's gonna be a game time decision so to speak. I do know if I sand it, I will have voided the warranty.

As far as the CCS numbers you came up with for the blanks you mentioned. It makes total sense that if the blanks you have, have smaller diameters than the blanks that the other CCS numbers were taken off of, that your blanks would be lighter in power. As I am sure you know, any time you change the diameter of a tube, it affects the strength of the tube.

As far as what guide train would I go with if you build the 725 as a spinning rod. Wrong guy to ask. LOL I don't use braid on spinning gear. I use fluorocarbon. Normally 8# and occasionally 10# Tatsu. on 2500 and 3000 size reels, so I go with the 20, 10, 5.5. reduction train. Norman would be the guy to ask such things. He's da man when it comes to a lot of things, but especially about the KR concept guide trains



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2023 04:37PM by David Baylor.

Edge Rods hand sands all their blanks and I believe the did that for the “epitome” rods on the MB 725 c6o2.

I don't think Edge sands all their rods.

My Silver Widows are unsanded and the Edge website for Silver Widows has the following:

"HMx-ray comes with in un-sanded, flat matte-black finish. Sanding blanks makes them softer, the action of these blanks is crisp."


The pictures of a couple of the C6O2 rods, such as the MB725 casting, on the Edge website look like they still have the ridges.

Les, your description of the finish Xray to C6O2 is similar to my blanks.

Standard X-Rays and C6O2’s seem the same to me, Deltas’ seem more black and seem to even have a “gloss” to them. The mirror finish X-Rays are supposed to be buffed, not sanded. I’m not sure I would sand anything not originally intended to be.

David -

I was just thinking the 20H reduction train for the 725 would allow a margin of choice between braid or fluorocarbon line. With that blank, I'm not planning on throwing light line anyway. A #12 fluorocarbon line is about right for my intended purposes - or the braid equivalent not to exceed #20. (I am feeling the need to introduce a full-fluoro option to my arsenal of rods and tactics, so your suggestion is well timed for me!)

I read a post on the forum that sanding the blank changed the CCS numbers a bit. (If you are that person reading this, please chime in!) Someone had measured CCS before and after sanding. If my memory serves me, the difference was a 4% reduction in IP? I don't know how aggressively they sanded their blank. Seems like the epoxy ridges could be carefully sanded or burnished or buffed without removing material from the blank itself....or at a minimum knock down the edges for easier thread work. A smooth blank is much easier to wrap, I agree!

Ray -

Thank you for the confirmation about the finish on the C6O2 being similar/same to the original X-Ray blanks. I have several of the Mirror Black finishes on the original X-Rays and cleverly thought the ridges on my Deltas would help me with a quick rod identification by feel alone. I'm not so clever after all.

Robert and John -

I agree that my Deltas have a different sheen than the X-Rays. While I agree with you that I might not sand my C6O2's, the sanded and un-sanded versions came out of the oven the same = un-sanded. Someone had to sand/buff the Mirror Black blanks. The word "sanded" might be the wrong term here. Buffed is probably closer to the process involved. Could a builder buff blanks like mine? How would one do that? Super light grit paper? Seems like a buffing wheel might have issues on the tip section if not well supported. I wonder how NFC does it?

Les - The C6O2 X-ray blanks I have are not sanded and thus have the resin ridges. If you want to smooth the blank, I’ve used 800 to1000 grit wet/dry paper to wet sand the blank. You can even go with a finer grit (1000 to 2000) if you wish. This is more like buffing or polishing the blank rather than sanding it. You will notice that during the sanding process the water will look milky; this is the resin residue. I sand just enough to smooth the blank to the touch. If you sand any more the water will begin to get a grey tinge to it, meaning you are down to the carbon fiber. I stop sanding at or before I reach this point. I’ve sanded a fair number of un-sanded blanks and have gotten a good feel for when to stop. Even with this very fine wet/dry paper it only takes a few minutes to smooth the blank. I wet sand rather than dry sand, because it prevents dust and also prevents the paper from clogging. I would not use a wet/dry paper more coarse than 500 grit, it just takes off the resin ridges too quickly making it too easy to start sanding the carbon fiber. I’ve CSS measured several blanks before and after sanding, and a there was a very minimal change, if any. I’ve also noticed that the CSS differences between the un-sanded and mirror finished X-ray blanks are also minimal.

If you are planning on using braid as well as mono or fluorocarbon on your reel then a 20H reduction train gives a little more versatility and will work just fine. If you only use braid up to 20# test, a 16H based reduction works very well. It should be realized that all braids labeled as 20# test are not the same.
Norm

Les, and this is just based on my personal experience and feelings ..... but I would not use 12# fluorocarbon line as the main line on spinning gear unless you were using at least a 4000 or larger reel. Spool diameter plays a huge factor in using fluorocarbon line on spinning gear. For me, 4000 series reel is too big for a bass outfit. Even with Tatsu, which is the only fluorocarbon line I use on spinning gear, 12# is too stiff for anything under a 4000 series reel. And even at that, it would be the largest size I would use on a 4000 series reel.

There may be fluorocarbon lines that are more supple than Tatsu (like InvizX) but they don't have the attributes that I look for in fluorocarbon lines. I am talking about 100% fluorocarbon lines.

Also, and this is just my feelings. I mentioned earlier that I normally use 8# and occasionally 10# Tatsu on 2500 and 3000 series reels. Very occasionally 10# test. When I go up to 10# test with the 20, 10, 5.5 reduction train, my casting performance suffers If I were going to be running 10# test the majority of the time, I'd bump up my reduction train to a 25, 12, 5.5. Just something to consider. I make these suggestions based on never using anything other than fluorocarbon line. If you were going to be going back and forth between braid and fluoro, I'd stick with the 20, 10, 5.5 that Norman agreed with.

As far as sanding the X ray blanks goes .... while I personally don't wet sand or use as fine of a grit paper, Norman's description on what to look for when sanding an X ray blank, is spot on. The resin dust is white. I've only sanded 4 original finish X ray blanks. I put the blank in my power wrapper, and run it very close to full speed, which I believe with my wrapper, is about 600 RPM. I start with 320, then move to 400 grit paper. Once I get the blank smooth to the touch, which doesn't take long at all, I'll finish with a white Scotch Brite pad.

I would suggest following what Norman laid out as far as paper grits and the like. Better to be cautious than in a hurry. I know if I decide to sand the C6O2 blank (who am I kidding, I'll be sanding it) I will be using the grit papers that Norman uses. And I may be the one you referenced posting CCS IP numbers before and after sanding an X ray blank. It wasn't a 4% difference. It was a 4 gram difference. That small of a difference could be in my eye sight lol

Ray,

You are correct they aren’t all hand sanded the ISR inshore line is. I believe the epitome line was as well which were the initial C6O2 blanks if memory serves correct.

I have the IS 705 and IS 764 x-ray on order. I think I’ll try the XO grips for them after the detail in this thread. Anyone done a casting build yet?