If I go with the 4 guide reduction, how hard is it to determine the locations? What I like about the 3 guide is that the GPS software also gives locations of where they go. Then so a static test for the runners.

[www.guidesnblanks.com]

The first couple pages show how to place the guides manually. This will also dial-in the placement to your particular reel, which is an added bonus.

I think a 20 is overkill at times: Revs 62 UL-2, 16 red. train. Lew's 1000 reel 18lb Gliss, 4g. wt., 97 ft. avg. cast. ( That's a lot farther than you could effectively fish it.) Mostly I use 20's. I think Jim (RIP) was trying to stay on the safe side. He also posted some nice handle/seat/trim assembly videos as others might, should do.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2023 07:52PM by Lynn Behler.

Fuji Torzite guides have much thinner ring material than any other ring types. This allows you to go smaller guides without affecting the inside diameter size. Torzite size 4.5 may have the same ID as Sic size 5.

I would like my rods to be versatile in line sizes and types. I don't expect to use braid every time, so I would build my rods to be able to handle 10lb mono (6'6" rod rated 1/8 - 1/2oz 8-12lb line). So I go with 20H, 10H, 6M or 5.5M. If it can handle 10lb mono, ow will also handle braid.

I haven't built this rod yet, but I hope I made the right choice in the reduction guide sizes.

Ryan, sound logic. The rod will work fine.

I bought the 703 and 725 NFC X-Ray C6O2 blanks recently and was considering making both of them 2500/3000 spinning reel rods. (The 703 for sure. The 725 is still a question mark as to spin or cast.)

For sure the 703 is going to go with the 16H reduction train. This would probably be plenty for the 725 as well since 10-pound fluorocarbon is the max I would throw on it. (By the way, The Fuji KR Concept Chart recommends 4.5mm KB and KT runners for mono/fluorocarbon lines from 5 to 12-pound test and braid up to 0.8. The 4mm for lines up to 5 pound test and braid up to 0.8. This is just what the chart recommends.

It is interesting how the chart shows reduction train sizes related to running guide sizes which is related to line sizes.
16H = 4mm, 4.5mm and 5mm.
20H = 4.5mm, 5mm, and 5.5mm.
25H + 5mm, 5,5mm, and 6mm.

I was intrigued with the suggestion of the "3 choking guides + high profile belly specification" as shown on the Fuji Chart and wanted to learn more. I read closely the descriptions of both specifications and noticed a distinction between the two. As per how I understand the descriptions from Fuji:

* The 3 guide reduction train specification was designed for rapid reduction to small belly and running guides for the purpose of weight reduction and overall rod balance.
* The 3 guide + high profile belly guide was designed to "diminish line troubles when the knot of Braid line and leader passes guides.....also good to make long casts with light weight lures with stiff monofilament." So, in a way, it is another variation of the NGC with a more gradual reduction angle to tame line spirals and pass bulkier knots.

As Norm has said many times: There is a lot of flexibility in the KR Concept.

I think the 3 guide group is all I need. However, it is fun knowing another tweak I can add if I have a need for it.

With the four guide reduction train, the fourth guide serves as the choke (high belly) guide. So, the reduction train length doesn’t really change; the choking is still very rapid. However, the higher choke guide may help the line ‘round the corner’ a little better, especially on long and slow action rods that bend deep into the butt section. They also work well on shorter and faster rods but probably not needed.
Norm

Norm! Thank you for that reply! I have been trying to figure out how to calculate the 4 guide reduction, but I guess you calculate it the same as the 3. Never quite had that figured out. Until now

I have never used a 4 guide reduction. I just build to the KR software, don't test cast, and I always seem to be the longest caster in the boat. Unless my son is using one of my rods.

I built one rod with a two guide reduction, and it works just fine , too. It's one of my son's favorite rods. He has never mentioned the strange guide setup.

Thank you, Norm!

The differences between the 3 and 3+ reduction trains seem pretty small when I look at it in terms of how much 'reducing' is going on - but evidently the differences were significant enough for Fuji to develop two different specifications for spinning guide lay outs. Makes sense that a little help in turning the corner (reducing the angle) from the high frame reduction guides to the low frame KT guides would help with stiffer mono lines and larger line coils or leader knots.

The length and action of the rod was not mentioned as a factor in selecting this specification in the literature/chart. I suspect you noticed this in your own testing and experience. Just curious.

For the 3-guide + high frame belly guide spec: So what you are saying is to place the first three reduction train guides like the Angler's Resource Calculator suggests (as a starting point). Next, place the high-frame belly guide in the place that the KB Choke guide would be placed otherwise. Then, continue on out to the tip with KT runners?

Les - Yes you are correct, the fourth reduction guide is placed in the choke position. The Anglers Resource article on KR groups does mention the use of a four guide reduction train for light powered and/or long rods. Fuji also developed some of their KR ‘high belly’ guides for use in a more conventional guide setup where size 6 or larger running guides can used.
[anglersresource.net]
Norm