I just wrapped my first rod guide and it looks good but I can still move the guide around. The threads still look tight after moving the guide around. Is it too loose or will the thread resin secure it to the rod.

It all depends on how much effort it takes to move the guide. The wrap should be tight enough to hold the guide firmly in place.

I can't put a torque value on it but when I have to move a guide I wrapped, I grip the guide and give give the blank a hefty torque to move the guide, the wrap is tight enough that it takes several iterations to get the guide where I want it.

HEFTY TORQUE... For me it is just enough force before I start to grimace and squint.

This method has never given me any issues.

Have fun

It doesn’t need to be so tight that it’s like opening a new jar of jelly, pickles, etc…(pretty hard for my old hands) to reposition the wrap, but it should be pretty tight. It definitely should require a little effort to reposition the guide. If in doubt, re-wrap it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2023 07:09PM by Daryl Ferguson.

Okay thank you for the response. It does take some force to move it so I think I'll finish the rest of the guides before deciding if I'll redo it.

Mark,

When you apply the thread epoxy, filling the 'tunnels' that form under the thread on either side of the guide foot will help keep the guide from moving. A tiny drop of epoxy on the end of a toothpick at the tunnel openings will be wicked inside.

Mark. I always want the ability to move the guides slightly before applying the epoxy. This gives me the chance to reposition them after wrapping for the final alignment. The epoxy will "cement" them in place. Congrats on the "beginning" of a great hobby.

tmbain@sbcglobal.net
Benton, Ar
"NEVER GIVE UP"

Mine are usually pretty tight as previously described by others, but sometimes the ones closer to the tip loosen up a bit after adjusting (like they’re become to wiggle). Out of curiosity, I epoxied them anyway. Turns out epoxy soaks all the way through to the blank (I don’t use color preservers) and forms a single unit when dry. Haven’t had any issues yet, but easy enough to repair if I called it wrong. Something else I found out - after years of meticulously trying to get epoxy in the tunnels, it seems epoxy wicks through the threads and fills the tunnels naturally anyway.

Like John says, when you're using nylon thread without color preserver, finish epoxy wicks through the thread and fills the tunnels naturally. When I wrapped my first couple of rods I never did anything to address the tunnels. I just coated the wrap with finish. I would inevitably have small bubbles form along the sides of the guide foot., so I started addressing the tunnels before I put any finish on the rest of the wrap.

When ready to apply finish to the wraps, the first thing I do is use a toothpick to drip finish right on top of the guide foot. Starting at the tip of the foot and working my way towards the guide frame leg (s). I do every single guide before I got back to where I started and begin applying finish to the entire wrap. That little bit of time allows the finish time to soak into and through the threads, filling the tunnels beside the guide's foot. I've never had a problem with bubbles in my finish since then.

Hi, thanks for all of the advice given. I recently finished wrapping all the guides and did two coats of 2 part thread master high build finish. The first coat went on perfect and hardened up great. The second coat has been on for around 5 days and is still slightly sticky. It's not to the point where it moves or moves when I touch it but it has not completely hardened. Should it be fine to leave like this because of the first coat being good or should I try and do a thin 3rd coat over it.

If it’s still tacky after 5 days, something is wrong. Probably due to poor mixing, a poor mix ratio or a contaminant problem. Try a third coat and see what happens.
Norm

Okay I'll put on another coat tomorrow, do you think it would hurt to do slightly more hardener just to make sure it finishes properly.

Mark Piccirilli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay I'll put on another coat tomorrow, do you
> think it would hurt to do slightly more hardener
> just to make sure it finishes properly.


NO. The epoxy has to be in EQUAL parts! Exactly equal. Syringes are the best way. Many will say that you need to mix a minimum of 3cc’s of each to allow a little bit of a margin of error. I mix .5 cc’s of each successfully, but I have really good eyesight for close up work (like good enough to put the exact edge of the plunger to the exact edge of the measurement line). Can’t see worth a $hit long distance though. LOL .

I re-align my guides after wrapping to get them as straight as I need, so slightly loose guides is not a problem. The two issues that affect the epoxy not setting properly are: 1) not having the proper proportions mixed and 2) not mixing thoroughly enough. Use epoxy syringes to measure more accurately and come up with a routine for mixing the epoxy enough that you can repeat every time to obtain the desired results. Also make sure that it is not too cold.

Mark,
Over the years, I have tried many different thread tension adjustments.

Today, I use sufficient tenson so that I can just barely move a guide using both thumbs on the guide to move it.

If I can move a guide with just a couple of fingers, I cut it off and start over.

Best wishes.

Some good advice above. If you can move it, that is not an issue, as even a proper wrap will allow for some adjustment. You want to press against the side of the guide foot with even pressure front to back to rotate the guide within the wraps. It should feel a bit firm but not like it is in a death grip. Don't push by the guide loop. I adjust all my guides after wrapping them and before epoxying them, as do most builders. And I do it by eyeball. Once you epoxy the wraps those guides will be locked in place unless your wraps are way too loose. And if they are way too loose you will know it as they will not pack properly.

I'm back from putting on a third coat of thread finish on after the second coat was slightly sticky. Its been just under a week and I'm having the same problem with the third coat but it is slightly better. This time my mix came out much clearer and seemed to harden better faster. I'm not sure if I am still mixing it in incorrect amounts or if it could be because its been getting significantly colder in my house. I am not planning to do another coat because the slight stickiness is annoying but not a huge concern for me as long as the rod would function without issue. Any advice would be appreciated and if anyone would advise against fishing the rod in this condition please let me know.

Much appreciated
Mark

Epoxy cure rates are temperature related (faster cures at higher temps). Put the rod in the warmest place in your house (in front of the heat vent for example) and see if the finish hardens more.

How are you measuring your epoxy; with syringes or by weight?
Norm

If the mix is not coming out "clear," it is probably not thoroughly mixed. Also, syringes should be used or sooner or later the mix will be inexact in proportions and not cure properly, as Norman is implying. Also, take your epoxy from the middle of the puddle to prevent the possibility of getting some not quite mixed properly along the edges. All epoxies, properly mixed and cured, will show no "slight stickiness." Some do take appreciably longer to cure, and Pro Paste can take days to fully cure if not cured in a warm place. Bottom line, if you do everything right, the epoxy will cure properly. I have never had a "bad batch" which is often blamed for problems.

Mark,
With respect to your finish problems.

1. Use a quality brand finish.
2. Mix the part A and the part B, in the exact ratio specified by the manufacturer. With most of today's product, the mix is equal parts - by volume - of part A and part B. It is very easy to get the exact equal parts by using syringes to measure the volume of each part a and part b. For myself, I simply put an extension on each syringe which is essentially a tight fitting piece of rod blank that has been cleaned on the inside of the blank to avoid contamination.

Note:
As long as you never get any part A in a part B syringe, or any part B in a part A syringe, there is really no reason to clean a syringe with any sort of cleaning solution. For myself, I just clearly mark each syringe to avoid cross contamination. Then, after each use, I use run the syringe up and down a couple of time to be sure that as much material as possible has been removed from each syringe. Then, I simply lay each syringe in its own holder to avoid mix ups and leave it there until it is needed again.
3. Mix carefully and completely for each batch. For myself, I use a craft mixing stick or a former cleaned popcicle stick. While mixing, I frequently wipe off both sides of the mixing stick on the sides of the mixing container. I also frequently wipe the sides of the mixing container with the mixing stick to be sure that 100% of the mixture has been completely mixed.
4. Mix, while using a timer or clock to time the mixing time. I mix for 120 seconds, or two minutes or longer to insure that the part A and the part B have been 100% completely mixed.

Summary.
1. Mix equal parts of part A and part B by volume - if required by the manufactuer - of the epoxy.
2. Mix for a minimum of 120 seconds as measured by a clock or timer, frequently wiping the mixing device or stick on the sides of the mixing container and also frequently wiping the sides of the mixing container with the mixing stick to insure that 100% of the epoxy mixture has been mixed 100% of the time and elements of the mixture.

At the end of 72 hours of any of todays commercial epoxy finishes for rod building in a reasonably warm environment of +70 or higher, there should be no trace of soft or sticky finish on a rod on which the finish has been applied.
p.s. -- of you don't dry your rods in an area of +70 or higher, do yourself a favor and create a heated enclosure so that you can cure your rods in a warm environment. You will end up with a better and more consistent product.

Best wishes

Best wishes.