After some 10 years without fly fishing at all, I will now go back to this type of fishing. I have built casting rods and ice fishing rods that I really love, I now want to put this love into a couple of fly rods. On my casting rods I uses Torzite guides that I really love, carbon handles is a given too. I know more or less nothing about guides for fly rods. I think I want 2 Torzite stripper guides. but what more? I have looked at the "Seymo DLC coated American Pattern Snake Guides". Could I maybe have "Single Leg Round eye DLC" guides closer to the tip? What tip are suggested?

And lastly guide sizes? What sizes should I use for #4-6 fly rods? The two stripper around size 8-10 for the Torzite? What's the rules for snakes when it comes to guide sizes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2023 03:28AM by Mattias Svensson.

With my limited experience I can tell you this:
- the fewer guide sizes, the better
- for 4-5 wt. rods I normally would use size 1 snake guides as running guides and I would use a single stripping guide - size 8-10
- my favourite snake guides are light wire guides from Snake Brand by Mike McCoy and my favourite stripping guides are ALPS titanium frame guides (more traditional in shape than the "high tech" Torzite guides ;-))
- for a 6 wt. build I would also use a single stripper size 12, maybe 2: 12 and 8. The running guides would be a size bigger than for the lighter rods. It all depends on whether you will be using stuff on your line, which may snag on the guides and will thus require their larger diameter
- with 4-6 wt. fly rods I never needed a tip top with a bigger loop - standard loop size always worked fine for me

Good luck with your fly builds,
Michal

I will think about 1 or 2 strippers. But having all running guides the same size sounds right, that's what I do on casting rods. But thinking if I should maybe use single foot guides near the tip and then snakes closer to the stripper guide. If I want the snakes and the single foot version of the snake to be the same size, should I buy all of them in size 1 for a #4 rod? Is size 1 the smallest size to go for a #4 rod? Size 1/0 an 2/0 are very small I assume, maybe for #2-3 weight rods?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2023 07:45AM by Mattias Svensson.

Fly rods only have one stripping guide - that is the guide closest to the reel. Many will have two double foot ceramic guides due to the main load on a rod being in the bottom half to one third of the rod's length. I wouldn't worry about that too much on the light line weight rods but once you move up into the 6-weight range I tend to use two ceramics on the butt section.

Some years back I migrated to PacBay Minima single foot guides for the rest. I think they give the best of all worlds on rods in this size range. I do find them noisy compared to ceramics however.

...........

How far away do you put the stripper from the reel? On casting rods I put itthe first guide further away from the reel than on rods you buy and I think it was much better overall for the function of the rod.

If you will mount the stripping guide 32 inches from the rod butt (assuming no fighting butt) I think you're going to find that it doesn't get much better than that.

..................

Go with Torzite for your stripper guides.
REC instead of snakes
And tip-top REC aren't great, go for the PacBay CFTL or CFTXL

5 or 6 weight fly rod only needs one double foot stripper guide. The second guide need not be a stripper type, as technically only the first guide is a stripper.

You can then 1) gradually taper the running guides, meaning going gradually to smaller guides towards the tip; 2) quickly taper the guides from stripper; 3) or just go from stripper to one size of running guide.

For 5 or 6 weight your smallest running guides might be a size 2, or a size 1 if you want to go small.

You can go size 10 stripper, one size 4 or 5 running guide for a one step rapid taper, then go to all size 2's and finish with a standard size tip top.

You can choose single foot or dual foot (snake style) running guides. You will have fewer wraps with single foot guides, and less epoxying. Most would advocate a locking or Forhan wrap on single foot guides.

Recoil guides are quite good, are bendable, and due to that a little tougher to wrap for a new rod builder. Also expensive. Nothing wrong with the basic Batson, PacBay or CRB guides.

Thank you! What is it with the PacBay Minima's that you think makes them better that single leg snakes?

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fly rods only have one stripping guide - that is
> the guide closest to the reel. Many will have two
> double foot ceramic guides due to the main load on
> a rod being in the bottom half to one third of the
> rod's length. I wouldn't worry about that too much
> on the light line weight rods but once you move up
> into the 6-weight range I tend to use two ceramics
> on the butt section.
>
> Some years back I migrated to PacBay Minima single
> foot guides for the rest. I think they give the
> best of all worlds on rods in this size range. I
> do find them noisy compared to ceramics however.
>
> ...........

Thank you! What is it with the PacBay Minima's that you think makes them better that single leg snakes?

I don't like the look on the Minima or similar style guides on fly rods. When I use single foot, which is on most of my fly rods 6 weight or less, I use traditional type wire guides, which can be had for less than $2 per guide. You can get Recoil or Snake brands for a bit more than $3.

I use Snake Brand guides, my 4 wt. have 1/0t tip guides, 5 wt. have 1/0s, the 6 wt. have 1s. Even my 1 wt. rods run a 10 ceramic stripper, 3/0t snakes. 12 mm strippers on all your choices, all single ceramics, #4 are about the same ID as a 12 mm ceramic, same for a 10 mm ceramic and a #3, a #1 is about the same ID as a 6 mm ceramic.

I will use a Torzite for stripper, I'm gonna try a size 8 and then directly to size 1/0 och 1 running guides. For the #4 rod I'm thinking single leg snakes. For the #6 I don't know. Maybe a Size 8 to a size 6 Torzite, then single leg snakes or traditional snake guides. If I don't go directly from a torzite stripper to the same size running guides I think it better to use a smaller Torzite transition guide than a bigger running guide, why use a bigger running guide as a transition guide, don't se the advantage, other than weight, but torzite is light guides too.

Once you have met certain functional, spacing and sizing requirements for your fly rod guides, the remaining choices and fine tuning are up to you, which is the great part of building your own rods. Tom likes the Minima, which is great. He is not alone in that fondness. They are very good guides. I lean toward ti-gray colored wire and single foot, as they meet my visual preference and also require fewer wraps than double foot. Others insist on traditional chrome-like or polished steel snake guides.

The running guides need only be large enough to pass through the knot or loop that joins your line to leader, and line to backing. Anything larger is really just extra weight. Many great rod designers, including the late Tom Morgan, espoused smaller guides, thus the mention above of size 0/1 running guides on a 4-6 weight. On recent 5 and 6 weight rods my running guides on the tip section were size 1, whereas on a stout 8 weight they were a size 2.

Guide sizes are not always consistent between manufacturers, so you can always try and look up inner diameter, though not all list it. Some espouse a slightly larger guide size when using single foot than when using a double foot snake style.

Some guides will make noise, or a harmonic, when used with textured lines.

Good luck, have fun.

david taylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once you have met certain functional, spacing and
> sizing requirements for your fly rod guides, the
> remaining choices and fine tuning are up to you,
> which is the great part of building your own rods.
> Tom likes the Minima, which is great. He is not
> alone in that fondness. They are very good
> guides. I lean toward ti-gray colored wire and
> single foot, as they meet my visual preference and
> also require fewer wraps than double foot. Others
> insist on traditional chrome-like or polished
> steel snake guides.
>
> The running guides need only be large enough to
> pass through the knot or loop that joins your line
> to leader, and line to backing. Anything larger
> is really just extra weight. Many great rod
> designers, including the late Tom Morgan, espoused
> smaller guides, thus the mention above of size 0/1
> running guides on a 4-6 weight. On recent 5 and 6
> weight rods my running guides on the tip section
> were size 1, whereas on a stout 8 weight they were
> a size 2.
>
> Guide sizes are not always consistent between
> manufacturers, so you can always try and look up
> inner diameter, though not all list it. Some
> espouse a slightly larger guide size when using
> single foot than when using a double foot snake
> style.
>
> Some guides will make noise, or a harmonic, when
> used with textured lines.
>
> Good luck, have fun.


I prefer small guides on casting rods so I want to goo as small as possible on my fly rods too I think. Can I get away wiht size 1/0 for single leg guides (OD 5.7 ID 4.3) on a #4 rod? And Size 1 (OD 6.5 ID 5.0) for the #6 rod?

Yes, you can do that and, by the way, it is not out of the norm.

Please see the guide size recommendations on the Epic fly rod site for their 590 and 690 graphite rods: [www.epicflyrods.com]


Their designer, Carl McNeil, makes great rods and is super knowledgeable. As you see he recommends 1/0 and 1, just as you are desiring. All you need to do is pass a line knot or loop through the guide.

Mattias,
As the CTS Rep - I give RB.Org a special price on CTS fl blanks.
Contact me by email or phone to discuss,
561 866 2155 hladen@hotmail.com

Regards,
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2023 02:49PM by Herb Ladenheim.

There is another option for the 6wt at least.
You can build the rod with using small Torzite running guides (T-KTTG size 5.5 or 6) and an Arowana tip.
The weight gain will only be a few grains (compared with larger I.D. REC titanium-nitrile single foots) and unnoticeable while casting. You do, however, give up some guide inside diameter to achieve this. Using the T-KTTGs will reduce blank/line contact and make forward hauling smoother as well as making it easier to extend line on a backcast. It will also make you poorer. Subjectively I think the rod casts better but I have no objective evidence either way. Also, if using Torzite collectors note that there is a lighter version of the common KW guide ( the LKWTG ) in sizes suitable for collectors up to size 16.

I've built several 6wts on Sexyloop blanks ( a fast action powerful 6wt with light tip) for saltwater use this way; one a rebuild after first building and fishing it with REC single foot wire guides. I use them for bonefish and striped bass and much prefer them to the same rod built with wire guides......albeit this is not delicate dry fly fishing.
It works so well I'm sorely considering tearing down my 4wt (built with small light REC single foots) and rebuilding with tiny T-KTTG's , probably size 4 or 4.5, although I can't speak for how well this might work. Perhaps others have done this and can comment?

4wt-KW Torzite 8, double foot snake 4 then the rest double foot 1 snakes. All running guides REC. Use a medium loop fly (not REC) or a lighter Arowana 6 tip top.

6wt-KW Torzite 12, KW Torzite 8, Double foot REC 4 snake the rest double foot REC snakes 2s or 1s. Use a large loop fly (not REC) or a lighter Arowana 7 tip top.

The Arowana tip top is going to be lighter than any fly tip top. The REC fly tip top are the heaviest among the fly tip tops. Doublefoot snake are lighter than singlefoot snakes or any other singlefoot ceramic or non ceramic guide. If you use single-foot guides use more than you would double foot snakes, typically 2 more.

That's my recommendation. I like the REC Cerecoil guides for strippers also. Any of the recommendations above will work, its all good knowledge. You can't go wrong with CTS, give Herb a call.

George Christman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> note that there is a
> lighter version of the common KW guide ( the LKWTG
> ) in sizes suitable for collectors up to size 16.
>
>
> I've built several 6wts on Sexyloop blanks ( a
> fast action powerful 6wt with light tip) for
> saltwater use this way;


If you happen to know, how is the weight comparing between T-LKWTG and the T2-KWTG?

When reading that you've bought the sexyloop blank and working with torzite guides I presume you're trying your best to get long distance cast?

I have never seen the Arowana tip-top. Maybe you had a chance to compare with the PAC-BAY CFT or CFTXL?