Somehow a Goggle algorithm led me to @#$%& to buy a 2004 Fly Rod and Reel Magazine.
Inside were two interesting articles

#1 was about rods that do not track straight while casting - guess what causes that - correct - their opinion was that not spining a blank is one reason a rod does not track.

#2 was a featured article mostly about "ACTION".
Eight fly rod desogners contributed to the article:

Jayson Brunner - St Croix
John Bartschi - Scott
Tom Dorsey - T&T
Steve Rajeff - GLoomis
Jim Rowinski - Orvis
Jerry Siem - Sage
George Swanson - Diamondback
Sam Drukman - Winston and Scott. He designed the Winston BIIx

Only three of them considered that "ACTION" described the static loading of the rods.
Jason Brunner, Steve Rajeff andGeorage Swanson

The rest thought "ACTION" was a dynamic expression of the rod. i.e. how it performed under load - recovery rate, etc.
This brought the following thought to mind - how would proponents of sthestatic load describe:
A rod with a progressive ACTION or regressive ACTION?

They all agreed that there had to be a common term for action had to be decided upon.

Herb
CTS

It is more likely that F. L. O. (Flat Line Oscillation) explains a rod that does not track straight.

[www.youtube.com]

You can easily find it on a fishing rod blank using the TNF process. Thank you David Taylor for introducing me to it.

The manufacturer catalogs from that time period, even before and since, have typically depicted rod action as where the rod initially flexes. These would include Lamiglas, Fenwick, Loomis, St Croix, Featherweight and a few more.

...........

Michael,
Great Video.
I'll try it out.
Thanks.
Herb

Many of them confused action with rod speed (still do). They are not the same.

Action is where the rod initially flexes. Speed is how it "feels" i.e. how quickly it reacts and recovers. Much of the time when you hear fly fishermen talk about "fast action rods" they are not talking about the flex profile but the speed of the rod. They just don't know it.

A progression action is inherent to most rods. Even a rod that flexes mostly in the tip initially, will eventually flex deeply into the butt once enough load has been applied to it.

.....

Tom,
I understand - but these guys were serious designers with serious companies.
Only three out of the eight though fast/slow were static measurements.
Herb

Their company catalogs said otherwise...

Action - where the rod initially flexes.
Speed - rate of response and recovery.
Power - resistance against flex.

Action and speed are commonly mistaken one for the other.

..............

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
> I understand - but these guys were serious
> designers with serious companies.
> Only three out of the eight though fast/slow were
> static measurements.
> Herb

I don’t see a trend in how this impacted their rod actions. I own rods designed by several of these men. Subjectively, one of the guys who got it right designed some of my favorite rods. Another designed a rod I wished I could have fished before buying. It’s rigid, fish losing, line speed device with two flat spots when loaded. The same lack of trend goes for the other pool of designers. I still haven’t upgraded two of my Dorsey rods from the year 2000 as I’m fully satisfied with them.

Thomas & Thomas... I built two prototype saltwater rods for them way back in the early 1990's.

.............

Kendall Cikanek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom,
> > I understand - but these guys were serious
> > designers with serious companies.
> > Only three out of the eight though fast/slow
> were
> > static measurements.
> > Herb
>
> I don’t see a trend in how this impacted their
> rod actions. I own rods designed by several of
> these men. Subjectively, one of the guys who got
> it right designed some of my favorite rods.
> Another designed a rod I wished I could have
> fished before buying. It’s rigid, fish losing,
> line speed device with two flat spots when loaded.
> The same lack of trend goes for the other pool of
> designers. I still haven’t upgraded two of my
> Dorsey rods from the year 2000 as I’m fully
> satisfied with them.

Kendal,
Please clarify "speed device" ??
I assume you mean by "Flat Spots" Ferrules are flat??
Herb

The point I was trying to make is that the rod seemed more about being a device to generate high line speed than to actually be effective at fishing. It had spots that didn’t flex much lying away from the single ferrule. Instead of being a fair curve when loaded it was stiff at the tip, then bent a little, stiffened again, and then hinged a little above the grip. The first few years after “A River Runs Through It” saw some ill conceived fly rods. New fly anglers were convinced that it was all about how far they could cast. Guys regularly came into the fly shop I worked at and bragged about casting distances that far exceeded the longest fly lines in production. I never called them out for making casts of 100 to 150’ on the 90’ fly lines I had sold them. The market did eventually correct to where rods like the wonderful ones you sell came back to fashion.

Part of the confusion comes from the use of a "speed-related" term to describe ACTION, the terms "fast", "slow,", "moderate fast," etc. This came, I believe, from the rate of taper of the old cane rods. But it gets confusing whether one is actually talking about ACTION or recovery speed. Too late to fix now.

Back around the 1990's Orvis tried to put a numerical scale on the amount of initial tip flex in a rod. So they obviously believed action was about initial tip flex and at least tried to put numbers on it. Not sure if they still use that system or not but I remember it well.

Orvis called that system their "Flex Index" system. This is where Dr. Hanneman got the idea for the AA component of the Common Cents System.

............

Thanks Kendal
Sounds horrible
Herb