I'm curious if anyone has this blank sitting around or if anyone has built on it that might be able to provide me with a specific measurement?

I'd like to know at what point on the blank a measurement of 12.4 mm or .488" occurs. How far from the butt of the blank?

I'm trying to find a blank that will fit through one of the NFC XO skeleton spinning grips, and that 12.4 mm is the ID of the slim portion of the blank. I'm trying to figure out how much of the butt of the blank I'd have to cut off in order to have the butt of the blank and the butt of the grip, line up.

Any information anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated.

I have that blank/rod in my pole barn, will do a measurement tomorrow and let you know.

David - I just got that blank not too long ago. Haven't built it yet. On mine it was 14.75 in (37.5 cm) from Butt to where I first got a 12.4mm OD.

Michael, thank you. Kevin thank you as well. I truly appreciate it guys.

Kevin, definitely not the kind of number I was hoping for. It appears that I am not going to be able to find a blank that would be any use to me personally, that would work to pass completely through the XO skeleton spinning grip that I received recently. And based on the construction of the XO skeleton grip. The only way I would use one, is if I were able to pass the blank completely through the grip. Otherwise there just isn't enough of the blank that would actually be able to be glued to the reel seat portion of the grip, for my liking.

Let me ask a question of you guys, and anyone else that cares to offer their opinion. It is said you can stick a blank in through the thread barrel of the grip and glue the blank in that way. Ok that's fine, right? But what if I told you that you would only have 1.75" of the blank being actually glued to the grip. That even if you stuck 5" of blank into the grip, only 1.75" of that 5" of blank will be glued to the grip? Would you find that to be adequate from a strength standpoint?

On the spinning version of the XO skeleton grip, if you aren't passing the blank completely through the grip, from the butt to the reel seat, the only portion of the blank that will be glued to anything is the area of the blank that passes through the thread barrel itself. And that thread barrel is only 1.75" long. As the entire grip is hollow, once you get past the thread barrel, the reel seat portion of the grip expands. How much it expands depends on what part of the reel seat you're talking about. But that is of no matter anyhow, because you can't put enough epoxy on the blank to help fill some of the area because it would get wiped off as it passes through the thread barrel.

I guess I could cut a blank long enough to where it would dead end into where the grip narrows to the slender part of the grip, and then make some kind of rounded plug on the end of the blank so I could put epoxy on the end and have that as an additional area where the blank would be epoxied to the grip, but is that something that I should really have to do? Or I could try to sleeve it somehow, but sleeving it would reduce the ID and possibly make it more difficult as far as fitting different blanks into it

I need some opinions guys. Would having only 1.75" of blank epoxied to the grip be strong enough? My background is in construction and in building things, I'm not a build it good enough kind of guy. I'm a build it so you don't have to wonder if it will be good enough kind of guy. Am I over thinking this?

The real shame is, that while I think the grip has other short comings other than what I have outlined above, they really are a beautiful grip. Very high quality and a beautiful finish. I'm not used to the palm swell area of the reel seat, so it feels a little awkward to me, but it's not so awkward as to think I couldn't get used to it and maybe find it very comfortable. The thread barrel definitely needs to be longer though. When mounting a 3000 series Shimano spinning reel in the seat, the locking nut extends past the end of the thread barrel by 3/32". If you're the type that uses a fore grip, you'd be out of luck with this grip unless you did a work around to allow you to put on, and take off a reel. At the very least, the thread barrel needs to be at least 1" longer. People can cut it down if need be.

Anyhow ...... any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I haven't laid eyes on the XO Skeleton Grip but not following how you'd only have ~1.75" of blank being "gluable". Isn't the entire length of the seat portion of the one piece grip/seat the same ID? When I look at the info on NFC's site I was envisioning that ~5" distance of the seat portion to have constant ID. Then to glue up your blank you'd put a tape arbor at very end of blank (to keep any excess epoxy from falling down into grip when installing) and a few other tape arbors along the ~ 5" of blank to keep it centered. Like I say, I've never seen one so that is how I was assuming it would go together.

I do agree they are attractive and unique looking but was trying to figure out when I'd functionally want to use one. Main thought is when you have an application for a completed rod in the 8-9' length range then you could use a 7'+ plus blank and the XO grip to get to that finished length and not have to worry about the shipping issues for a 8'+ blank.

I'd reach out to NFC to ask about glueing up.

Definitely interested in what you are able to create using the grip. Keep us informed and would like to see a pic or two once you get it sorted out.

I would call NFC and ask them for their installation recommendation or instructions.

How big is the palm swell? Is it as large as the Aero 16 seat or is it smaller like the Fuji IPS?

Kevin, no the entire length of the seat portion of the grip isn't the same ID. Take a look at the pictures ofr the grip on the web site, and you'll see what I am trying to describe.The entire grip is hollow and it follows the contours of the reel seat. The portion where the reel foot rests on the seat doesn't open up as much as the sides and top, but it does open up. So as I said, you can put as much epoxy as thick on the blank as you want, passing it through the thread barrel is going to wipe off all but what the ID of the thread barrel is.

Ray, Aleks described installation in the thread introducing the grips. [www.rodbuilding.org]

If you do as Aleks describes, only 1.75" of the 3" of glue you put on the end of the blank, is going to come in contact with the grip. And if you put 5" of blank into the grip and only put epoxy on the last 3" of the blank, none of the epoxy will be in contact with the grip. You have a casting version of the seat ....... take a flashlight and shine it down inside the thread barrel. I'd be curious if those are the same way? Meaning they swell out past the thread barrel.

I figured out a way to make it work at least to my liking. It involves a sacrificial blank extending through from the butt and then going up inside the blank inserted through the thread barrel. Fill the end of that blank with epoxy and slide it down over the sacrificial portion of blank inserted through the butt.

Oh and I have sent NFC an e mail. I sent it the day I got the grip and have forwarded the same e mail every day since, and have yet to get a reply.

Anyhow ...... off to work. I will check back in after I get home.

Thanks guys !!!

Ok guys, I took some pictures looking down the thread barrel so you can see what I'm talking about. You can see the area that is the thread barrel pretty clearly. The little notch in the outside of the thread barrel is the top of the thread barrel. If you look at the pictures you can see pretty clearly where the palm swell is. The thread barrel stops and it's just a shadow past that. [www.rodbuilding.org]

One of the picture shows the portion where the reel foot mounts. That portion of the seat only opens up slightly from the thread barrel ID, but you can see how it expands. It may not be much, but as I said in the previous post, any epoxy on the blank is going to get wiped off by the ID of the thread barrel, so even that it doesn't expand much, any epoxy left on the blank after passing through the thread barrel, isn't going to touch. [www.rodbuilding.org]

I try to show where the sides of the grip expand out in this photo, but it really doesn't show very well at all. But trust me, it's wider than the thread barrel. And while it doesn't step out much. its the same scenario as the above. Epoxy that stays on the blank will only be as much as the blank passing through the thread barrel allows. [www.rodbuilding.org]

The photos may not do justice to what I can actually see and tell, because I can hold the grip in my hand. I can direct a small flashlight to see down inside much better than I was able to direct the flash from my phone/

Anyhow .........as the old saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I think the make it work solution I came up with will work quite well. Years ago I mentioned a rod I had that broke when a big muskie hit my bait right at the boat. I turned the part of the rod I had left, into a really long reamer. I can strip the abrasive strip off of it and use part of it as the sacrificial blank I mentioned. I think it will work out quite well. I know I have to do something, because I won't use the grip without doing something to increase the amount of blank I can actually epoxy to the grip.

And still no response from NFC concerning the questions I raised in my e mail to them.

Haven’t used the XO Skeleton spin grips, but it sounds like they don’t give you a lot of overlap for glueing your blank in place. I would have thought they would have the full length of the reel seat portion of the grip with the same ID to give you at least 4” of overlap. However, I assume these grips have been successfully built and used even with this minimal amount of overlap. This short overlap brought to mind the old vintage Lew’s speed sticks. These vintage Rods used casting and spin grips which were either glued or ferrule directly onto the blank using a plastic arbor or ferrule. The over lap was less than 2”, but they worked just fine. So it is quite possible the amount of overlap you have for your grip may be sufficient. You could try using a polyurethane foam arbor to shim the blank to the grip. It might work just fine.
Norm

If you used the 6 ft. 2 in. model, wouldn't you have your length and the fit you need?

I thought we went to blank thru handle to get away from this type of thing. No help I know, but that's where I'm at.

Norman, thank you for the response. Much appreciated. And no, they don't give you a lot of overlap for gluing the blank in place. As I mentioned in prior posts, it's only the length of the thread barrel, which is 1.75" long. And like you and others, I too would have thought that the full length of the reel seat portion would be the same ID to give you at least 4" of overlap. While I still would prefer having the ability to pass a blank, or I should say a blank that I would find useful from a power standpoint, completely through the grip, I would have been reluctantly satisfied in the overlap area were at least 4" in length.

I know an overlap length such as that would have given me more confidence in strength, as well as having the blank being in line with the grip, and not coming out at even a slight angle. And I know that the 1.75" is probably a sufficient amount of overlap to ensure that the blank is in line with the grip, but I would feel better about it with a 4" overlap.

As far as the Lew's speed sticks you mentioned, I tried to rebuild an old Shimano Convergence casting rod as my first foray into rod building. I didn't know it until I tore the rod apart, that it had that same type of blank to reel seat connection. It used a cardboard arbor but the blank extended into the reel seat, the full length of the reel seat. So about 5" if memory serves me correctly. And you're right, I too assume these grips have been used successfully with this minimal amount of overlap. But I can honestly say without equivocation, that had I known the overlap was what it is, I would not have purchased this grip.

And I will be using a poly urethane foam arbor to shim the blank to the grip. But if the ODs of the various size arbors I have looked at are correct, the its' OD will need to be sanded to fit inside the thread barrel.

Spencer, thank you for the response. I appreciate it. If I used the 6' 2" version I'd still have to modify the grip to feel confident in the blank grip interface. If it were even the 4" overlap mentioned earlier, I could probably be fine with it. But I will not in my mind be fine with only a 1.75" over lap. And it doesn't matter to me if those at NFC or others have used the grip as they are, successfully. As I said in an earlier post to this thread. I'm a build it so I know it's darn sure going to work kind of guy.

Anyhow ..... this all may be moot, because if I ever get a reply to the e mails I've sent, I may just send the darn thing back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2023 09:55PM by David Baylor.

Lynn, you are absolutely right !!! I was hoping the ID of the slender portion between the two grip areas would be the same as the thread barrel. I sent NFC an e mail questioning what the ID of that slender portion of the grip is, on October 29th. I never got a reply. I had to come to this forum to get an answer to that question.

I ordered a blank with a specific butt size because I thought I would be able to pass it completely through the grip with out needing to trim any length off of it. Or at the very most, would need to trim perhaps a couple of inches off it. Heck I would have been fine with having to take as much as 5" off the butt if need be. And if the blank I received had a butt diameter anywhere close to what the published dimensions for the butt diameter of the blank was supposed to be. I may have been able to do just that.

But the blank I received has a butt diameter .091" larger than the published dimensions of the blank I ordered.

Anyhow ..... I'm getting a little fed up with the lack of a response to the e mails I've sent. I don't have time to, nor do I feel I should need to call them. Answer one of my dang e mails

David - Who are you contacting at NFC? If you are using the info email you will be better off emailing a real person. If you need a name email me.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2023 10:21PM by Norman Miller.

Norman, I sent the e mails to the info e mail address. I've usually gotten very fast responses to those e mails either from Kelsey, or even from Aleks. In hindsight, once I didn't get a fairly prompt response to those e mails, I should have sent them directly to someone. So I've sent copies to both Kelsey, and Aleks. Now that I've done that, I am sure that I will get a fast response.

A sincere thank you for mentioning something that I am more than a little embarrassed about not thinking of in the first place.

I truly appreciate it

Oh, and now that I've cooled down a bit from when I wrote some of my earlier posts, I just wanted to say that I won't be sending the grip back. It's just too cool looking and of such high quality that I will definitely be keeping it, I can make it work to my liking.

With that said, I've been playing around with it a bit. Measuring certain aspects that some have question in other threads where the grip has been mentioned. For instance, the distance from the butt of the grip with the EVA butt cap installed, to the center of the stem of a 3000 series Shimano spinning reel mounted in the seat, is 13.125"

If you were to imagine the reel seat portion of the grip as a size 16 or 17 down locking mounted skeleton reel seat, what would be considered the rear grip, would be a total length of 11". And the portions that would be considered the rear grip and fighting butt, are both 3,812" or 3 13/16" in length. That is to the end of their respective tapers.

The ID of the portion of the grip that emulates the blank in a split rear grip, is 12.4 mm. If you want a blank to pass through the grip from the butt end of the grip, the blank can be no larger than 12.4 mm or .488", at a distance of 3.812" or 3 13/16" from the butt of the blank. Of course if you don't mind trimming a bit of length off the butt of the blank so the two line up, you can always do that.

The total weight of the grip with the hood / locking nut combination, and the EVA butt cap installed, is 43 grams. Which is not at all heavy when you consider the combined weight of a separate reel seat and rear grip. I don't have a skeleton reel seat on hand to weigh, but I weighed a size 16 Pac Bay casting reel seat and 2 CFX grips, one being a 2.25" tapered fore grip (I use those as the rear grip on a split rear grip spinning rod) and a 2.35" fighting butt, with an Am Tack ECC 22 EVA butt cap. That combination weighs 42 grams. So the grip is not heavy at all.

And if you're one of those that count grams. the hood locking nut combination that comes with the grip weighs 11 grams, but you can swap that for a size 16 hood locking nut combination from another manufacturers reel seat. That is if the locating tab on the nut is on the top of the thread barrel. Or in the case of a casting reel seat, on the bottom of a thread barrel. That will shave about 5 grams off the total weight. And it also gives you some options of using different color hoods to add a little bling to the thing. lol

One other potential benefit of changing out the hood / locking nut combination, is that you could gain the ability to use a fore grip without worrying about the locking nut hitting it. And this is because the hood locking nut combination would be shorter. The hood locking nut combination that comes with the seat measures 1.75" long. The length of the hood locking nut combination of the two different size 16 nuts that I mentioned earlier, are 1" in length. With a reel installed in the seat, you have .75" of thread barrel exposed.

The OD of the butt of the grip is 1.074" which would allow the use of some of the various trim rings that go between a butt cap and rear grip. You'll most likely have to turn down the tenon on the butt cap that comes with the grip to use that kind of trim ring, but it can be done. I personally plan on using a left over section of the foam core from a CFX grip kit I used to make a grip, and turning a tenon on it. then tapering the other end so about 1" of it fits inside the butt of the grip. This will give me more options for trim rings and butt caps.

There is a lot of options available if you just let your mind go free a bit. And who knows .....after talking to someone at NFC, they may change a few things about the grip based on our discussions. I personally would hope they would, because things are really sweet.

Oh and if anyone wants some measurements that I didn't mention, feel free to ask. I'll measure whatever you want. lol

Update. I got a response from both Aleks, and Kelsey. I should have just sent my original e mail to one of them, but I figure they're too busy and that whoever answers the e mails sent to the info e mail address, would just pass them along.

Aleks said he was going to do a video and a post concerning the use of the XO skeleton grips. And while I am interested to watch the video and read whatever he has to say in his post, because of something I plan on doing as far as reel seat hood and locking nut, I still plan on going through with my own personal fix. I will just feel better about it if I do.

I've thought about how to do it some more, and instead of using enough of a sacrificial blank to run completely through from the butt end, I'll just cut the actual rod blank long enough so it butts into where the grip gets slender, and then use a 6 - 8" piece of blank with arbors on both ends that will fit equally into the actual rod blank, and the slender portion of the grip. I'll taper the arbor on the blank end so it matches the taper of the rod blank, and just have the one a straight arbor turned down to slightly under 12.4 mm.

It shouldn't be too difficult at all, and will actually be kind of fun.

And as far as what I have planned with the hood and locking nut ..... as I said in my prior post, a hood from other manufacturers size 16 reel seats will fit on the XO skeleton. so I'm going to change out the hood and locking nut that comes with XO, and use a black hood and nut from a Pac Bay reel seat, and an Alps locking ring in front of it. Using that combination means there will be about .5" of the thread barrel exposed, so I'm going to trim .375" of the threads off. So instead of the thread barrel being 1.75" long, it's going to end up being 1.375" long. That's why I'll be using my own personal fix I spoke of earlier.

I'm also going to put an Alps TRB trim ring between the butt cap and grip. The only thing is the Alps TRB has an OD of 1.04", so I'm going to have to shorten the butt grip section of the XO, so its' OD matches the OD of the Alps TRB.

Getting the grip to the same OD as the Alps TRB means I'm going to have to take about .625" off the length of the butt of the XO. I've experimented with hand sanding it with some 320 grit on a hard flat surface, and doing it by hand. That's going to be a slow process though. We have a 14" disc sander at work, but it has an 80 grit disc on it. That kind of scares me. So I'll either do it by hand, or I may buy a small 5 or 6" disc sander belt sander combo and put a 320 grit disc on it to bring the length down. I've kind of wished I had one of those at the house from time to time, so this may be enough to push me to get one.

We'll see.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2023 10:10PM by David Baylor.

Just thought I'd post a picture showing the ideas I had for adding some bling to the XO skeleton grip.

The reel hood / nut combination is from a size 16 Pac Bay casting reel seat, but I also tried a size 16 hood / nut combination from a Fuji reel seat. I would think any size 16 hood / nut combination would work on the XO, as long as it has a single locating tab located in the middle of the reel seat hood, and that it is on the opposite side of the of the hood from the area that slips over the reel's foot. Hoods from the Alps MVT won't work, because they have two locating tabs that run down the sides of the thread barrel.

As you can see in the picture, there is a tad more than .375" of thread sticking past the locking ring. I personally will be trimming that back so that there is only a single thread sticking past the locking ring, and will be finishing the end of the thread barrel off in my usual fashion. That being a .375" long EVA nub that is turned down to the OD of the thread barrel. The shortening of the thread barrel is why I'm going to stick with my above mentioned plan for epoxying the rod blank into the grip. I'll just feel better about doing it.

The locking nut in front of the hood nut is an Alps locking nut that I got from Get Bit. It's available in 6 different colors. Red, Black, Silver, Gold, Cobalt Blue, and Titanium Chrome. For you weight conscious folks, it weighs 1.168 grams. And while the size 16 is the only one that will fit the XO properly, the locking ring is also available in sizes 17, 18, 20, and 22. I've never had or felt the need for an additional locking nut on a reel seat, but these different colored ones offer a nice way of adding a little color to your build. Cost is $3.17 for the size 16.

The trim ring between the butt of the grip and the EVA butt cap is also from Get Bit. It's an Alps TRB. trim ring. It only comes in one size, but is available in 11 different colors. The colors that match with the locking ring are, Red, Black, Silver, Gold, and Cobalt Blue. And while the names of the colors aren't the same. It appears that the Satin Grey Titanium color in the TRB, would match the Titanium Chrome color of the locking ring. The OD of the TRB is 1.40" so in order to have the butt diameter of the XO match the OD of the TRB, you'd need to take off .5" - .625" off the length of the butt of the XO. Again, for you weight conscious folks, the TRB weighs 1.199 grams.

As you can see in the picture the OD's aren't yet matched, but the process has been started. I'm probably just going to keep doing it by hand. I'm a little fearful about possibly putting too much heat into it if I use a disk sander. As a test I'm going to try sanding down an empty prescription bottle with the disk sander we have at work. If it doesn't melt that cheap plastic, I'm thinking I'll be good to go.

Oh, and in a previous post in this thread I gave some weights for the grip itself. As it comes from the factory the complete grip weighs 43 grams. Included in an order I just received, is the reel seat and trim rings I've used on all but two of the spinning rods I've built. I just weighed the reel seat, along with the combination of grips mentioned above, and two additional trim rings and one of the colored locking nuts mentioned above. That combination weighs 51 grams. The XO as it is in the picture, weighs 40 grams. An 11 gram difference and the XO is a full length rear grip

Anyhow ..... here's a link to the picture I took. [www.rodbuilding.org]

I don't know about you guys, but I think these things are really sweet looking. Definitely not your traditional look, but I think it has a certain elegance to it.