I am sure this has been asked before so my apologies up front. I tried searching and didn't come up with anything.
I am building a jig rod for bass on a mb7108 xray. Can someone recommend a guide train for this rod? I am hoping to use fuji torzite titanium guides.

Depends on your line, but for rods like this I love the Fuji KLH reduction guides with KB/KT runners. KLH 20-10-5.5M then runners of your choice. If going for max sensitivity and recovery speed, I use size 4 runners, but that requires the right braid to leader knot if you're going that way. Going larger should be just fine if you prefer.

With some lines 16-8-5.5M will work just fine, but I go with 20-20-5.5 because it's more versatile, you can go higher on line test and it still works.

Go to the Anglersresource.net site and use the KR software to place the reduction guides. It works so well I don't even bother test casting any more.

I’m assuming you are building a rod this heavy as a baitcaster. If that’s the case I would go with TRVTG06 (1), TKBTG5.5 (1), TKBTG5 (3), TKBTG5 (5), and a TKGTT5 tip-top in the appropriate tube size for your blank. If you are using full fluorocarbon or tie Alberto knots well, you can easily go down to 4.5 runners and tip top. If you do, use only one TKBTG5 and then two TKBTG4.5’s. You don’t need to ramp down in half steps from the TRVTG06, but I find the line lay and casting is great with this setup.

I assumed spin, if cast you can start with the RV6 and a couple KB's, then KT's to the end, all the same size.

My guess is, that with this rod being built on an MB 7108 X ray blank, it's not going to be a spinning rod. For a casting rod you will get a lot of suggestions of using an RV6 as the butt guide. I personally wouldn't know what to recommend the remainder of the guides be, as I have never used an RV6 as a butt guide.

Personally, if a casting rod, I would go with the usual 3 double foot reduction guide train that you see on most, if not all factory casting rods. I'd go with a KW 10 as the butt guide, followed by a KW 8, then a KW 6, and then to your running guides. The reason I'd go the more traditional route is because I like the way it looks and the additional double foot guides will carry a little more height, further down the blank, perhaps making it possible to use a fewer total number of guides. It's not going to save you weight though, so if you want the lightest possible guide train, how I would build it wouldn't be for you.

Continuing, I personally don't use braid and leaders, so whether or not the running guides will pass any knots more easily, isn't something I am concerned with. Torzite rings are quite thin so they have an ID that is about 1/2 size larger than say an SIC ring of the same size. A 4.5 Torzite has an ID that is about the same as a #5 SIC ring. Anyhow, I'd probably go with 4.5 KB's and KT's as my runner. The reason for choosing 4.5's being, you can't get a tip top with a Torzite ring, smaller than a 4.5. If you have concern with passing a braid to leader knot, you may want to step up your running guide size.

Michael Danek Wrote:
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> I assumed spin, if cast you can start with the RV6
> and a couple KB's, then KT's to the end, all the
> same size.

I’ve done TRVTG trains with all the KB’s and KT’s as 5.0’s and some with a preliminary 5.5 KB. I think the ones with the 5.5 cast slightly better, but I don’t have identical setups to really know. Either way, this is a great performing guide train.

I am just finishing a casting build on this exact blank. This is what I ended up with. All Fuji guides.

1 - KW10 (butt guide)
1 - KW 5.5
3 - KB 4.5's
8 - KT 4.5's
1 - tip top with #5 ring

I was expecting to get away with a couple less of the KT's but after static testing ended up with above. Maybe a bit much but with such small runners allowed me to keep line off the blank during static test and wasn't too worried about the extra KTs since they are so light. If I had spiral wrapped it could have gotten away with a few less runners. Like mentioned above could do away with the two KW's and use an RV6 instead and then go right to KB's and KT's.

I have my builds with RV6’s and a St. Croix factory build (close-out sale) with KW’s. These cover every opinion offered so far. All work very well while being thoroughly tested designs. My preference is the RV6 system, but I wouldn’t pass up a great deal on a rod because it carried a well executed KW train. However, the RV6 system will cost builders less while also being lighter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2023 10:59PM by Kendall Cikanek.

This is for a casting setup that I will run straight flouro on.
I appreciate all the responses! This gives me several options to consider. Thanks!

Kevin, I don't think the number of running guides you use are a bit much at all. I'm certain I would have at least the number of runners you used, and possibly more.

My philosophy as far as guide trains goes, on any type of rod, is that there are times when you can't necessarily control the position your rod gets put in when fighting or landing a fish. I will gladly sacrifice having the lightest possible guide train, for the piece of mind I get from having those one or two extra running guides.

I’ve built several of those blanks, some thoughts - it is an exceptional Carolina rig rod (if you’re the big weight, long leader type of guy), or a great punching rod, but I don’t feel it’s that good as a “casting jig” rod (unless you cast jigs over 1 ounce regularly). It’s just too powerful, and heavy (weight wise) to be fun using as a casting jig rod all day. I think it needs at least an ounce to be effortless in casting. It’d work, but I feel there are better options out there. If you’re thinking jig rod that you’re going to pitch or flip, it’d be better, though I personally still prefer a little tip working even when pitching.

I have not found any measurable difference casting distance wise between alconite guides and torzite guides (and I want my Carolina rig rods to cast FAR, so I experimented a lot). Weight difference in the entire guide train between the two, when doing micro or macro guides is minimal… like only 3-5/1,000’s of an ounce total difference. Torzites will give you a slightly larger guide opening (on the same size guides) that will help if you are planning on using 20# flouro or larger. We are not fishing for tuna, so both will wear fine.

I build mine with KW7, KW6, KB5.5, and the rest KT5.5’s. Again, I noticed no casting distance difference with larger stripper guides, only slightly more line slap when going to KW10’s. I use low profile reels, so if I were planning on a large round reel, I might consider a KW8 to start (the rest the same). I have not used the RV’s as the stripper, but that might be a better solution to match up to a round reel.

I’d have to dig up my notes or check a rod, but I think I’m running 12, maybe 13 total guides, not counting tip. 11” handle (base of reel seat to butt).

John,
I appreciate the information about the practical use for this blank. I had planned to use it for fishing deep timber with a jig. I need a good Carolina rig rod as well so not all is lost.

What blank would you recommend for this application? I need the most sensitive blank I can get with enough power to move a jig in depths between 40-50ft. I’m open to suggestions.

40-50 ft is much deeper than I personally have fished (successfully anyways) so not sure how credible my advice would be. The closest I regularly fish is 35 ft for Great lakes smallmouth and due to techniques and lure preferences of the smallmouth, I find spinning more efficient to use. I would imagine you would need to be able to make long casts as 20 yards of the cast would be wasted just to get down to depth.

Personally, I use the NFC MB736 and the NFC SJ736 for jigs (1/2 oz to 5/8 oz, not including trailer). I like the MB736 better as it is noticeably lighter. I also use the Mudhole NMB874 & NMB873.5 but personally don't like painted blanks so I've been using the NFC's more. Others have asked for and raved about the Rainshadow ETC74H-SS I have built for them, but, personally, I felt the blank weight as a little on the heavier side for what I preferred (that blank is actually lighter than the NFC MB7108 though). My go to, before learning to build my own, was the Loomis GLX 844 (best at that time). I'm guessing the NRX has taken over that spot and I feel the X-rays are comparable. I have also used the Phenix's Ultra MBX and K-2 blanks in the past and loved those blanks, but getting their blanks when out of stock is a nightmare.

Chris - can you give a bit more details about how you will be fishing this deep timber? I'm envisioning at that depth you'd mostly be vertically dropping or just slight pitches. A few years back we visited Lake Hartwell and they have a lot of that flooded timber at those depths. We were using electronics and mostly dropping heavier jigging type spoons vertically and for that application I'd think that MB 7108 would be fine as it has a lot of backbone. Anyhow, you might get a few other suggestions on blanks if you can explain a bit more how you are planning to fish that deeper timber (i.e. Vertical or casting presentation and the weights on your jigs).

Thanks John. Again, I appreciate the insight.
I know it seems a little unconventional to fish that deep but the spots in these Savanah lakes get down pretty deep during the colder months. We have actually caught some nice largemouth mixed in with the spotted bass, working these jigs deep.
I almost picked up the MB736 as well because I read about the MB7108 being on the heavier side (weight-wise) on a few forums. What pushed me to the MB7108 was the length and I read that it had plenty of power for deeper fishing. It sounds like it may be borderline too much power but I think I will build it out and see what I think. Worst case, it becomes my Carolina rig rod.

Kevin,
That's a good point, I should have been more specific.
What you described with vertically dropping to the fish in the deep timber is accurate. Basically, the timber edges up to the 40-50ft mark in the ditches and that's the sweet spot. We drop jigs to them and almost fish it like a dropshot. 90% of the bites come on the initial drop. What I've found is that I either don't have enough power to get a solid hookset using a medium heavy and I have fish pull off or I miss a lot using a heavy power rod. I thought of the MB7108 as the middle ground between those two powers.
I do, occasionally, make long casts parallel along the timberline and yoyo the jig through the outer edge of the timber. I have experienced the same problems with losing or missing fish doing that as well.

I don't have any experience fishing the depths you mention. The deepest I fish for anything is when I go up to Lake Erie, and even up there the max I have ever fished is 30' But I can share my thoughts on one of the blanks that John mentioned. That being the SJ 736 X ray. John's weight range for that blank is pretty much spot on for what I feel the blank is good for. Although I would say that if using 5/8 oz jig with a bulky trailer, or a skirted jig that has a very full skirt, it would be pushing it in those kind of depths. And I am speaking of the vertical fishing. If you're making long casts with your bait at those kind of depths, I feel it would be under powered. It's an awesome blank. Probably the most versatile rod I have. To to me, it fishes like a true medium heavy power.

Also, the rods I've built on that blank come in at 3.65 and 3.75 oz. Not at all heavy by my estimation